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Terriblle terrible sport

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  • #19541
    GhostofTheFellow
    Member
    • Total Posts 410

    Didnt go out today..or have a bet!!

    I must have seen at least 12 horses stopped,and i dont mean out the back,they were never put in the race

    And the clowns on RUK C4 and ATR Say nothing(i wonder why!!!!)

    #369804
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    You turned the wrong road mate. Betfair forum is second on the right. :roll:

    Or should that be "wrong"?

    value is everything
    #369821
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4517

    It’s a good thing you didn’t say you had backed them – dashed bad form on here.

    Yes, I would strongly advise having a look at the betfair forum if nothing more than a reality check as there are a few people on here who seemingly like to pretend that all horses run on their merits.

    As for the media being critical they make a very nice living out of what for most people is a hobby why make life difficult?

    #369823
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    It’s a good thing you didn’t say you had backed them – dashed bad form on here.

    Yes, I would strongly advise having a look at the betfair forum if nothing more than a reality check as there are a few people on here who seemingly like to pretend that all horses run on their merits.

    As for the media being critical they make a very nice living out of what for most people is a hobby why make life difficult?

    Stilvi,

    If GOTF had asked a question about a particular horse – and named it… then I might have responded differently. No need to accuse anyone of skulduggery, which might get the forum in to trouble. Just say "What was … doing on …"?

    But to believe there was QUOTE "at least 12 horses stopped" is (at least in my opinion) stupid. You might not like people like me explaining away so called "stopped" horses. But I’m getting fed up with all of this talk of bent races/jockeys/trainers, when there’s no evidence. Yes, it does go on occasionally, I’ve had my suspicions too, but nowhere near the amount of times some believe. GB (and probably I too) is remarkably straight.

    Some "punters" (and I havn’t got anyone particularly in mind) don’t seem to have a clue about all the reasons a horse can run badly. If they’d only buy a good form book they’d realise.

    Some media (eg Lydia Hislop) do stick up for the "punter" if they see something "questionable". Just because they don’t see it happening anywhere near as many as you or anyone else, doesn’t mean they are ignoring anything. It’s just probably not there in the first place.

    value is everything
    #369835
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Ginger
    If you seriously believe there aren’t dozens of horses not run on their merits almost every day, then maybe it’s you that needs to buy a good form book (or, at least, interpret the one you have better)?

    #369841
    Coggy
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1234

    The mere fact that handicap racing exists, means that virtually every other form of racing is affected by horses in some cases not trying, or alternatively, not being put in the best position to do their best i.e. not properly fit, inappropriate trips etc..
    It is not an exact science, but it is human nature, if connected to the animal, to manipulate the circumstances to give you the best opportunity to capitalise on those circumstances.
    Anyone that thinks that every animal is running on its merits on every occaision is simply deluded ( in my opinion)

    #369846
    Scamperdale
    Member
    • Total Posts 83

    Stone the crows.

    I’m starting to remember why I had Cormack delete my original account.

    If you believe the sport is ‘terrible terrible’ then why continue to patronise it?

    #369884
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    The mere fact that handicap racing exists, means that virtually every other form of racing is affected by horses in some cases

    not trying

    , or alternatively, not being

    put in the best position to do their best

    i.e.

    not properly fit

    ,

    inappropriate trips

    etc..
    It is not an exact science, but it is human nature, if connected to the animal, to manipulate the circumstances to give you the best opportunity to capitalise on those circumstances.
    Anyone that thinks that

    every animal is running on its merits on every occaision

    is simply deluded ( in my opinion)

    Coggy,

    Frankel could be said to have run over an "inappropriate trip" (7f) and "not properly fit" (reappearance), not "put in the best position do do their best" (initially held up). Was Frankel "not trying"? He won!

    Namibian won the 2 mile Queens Vase on soft ground, then came out and won the 1 1/2 mile Gordon Stakes on a sound surface at Goodwood. Thought by most people to need a much greater test of stamina. Was Namibian not trying? He won!

    It’s exactly the same in handicaps.
    Just because a horse is running over conditions not thought to suit, does NOT mean it is NOT TRYING. The vast, vast majority of horses are run to the best of their ability on the day GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT PREVAIL. ie If those conditions are not to the horse’s benifit, it will do its best given THOSE conditions. There is nothing wrong with that. Any punter can look at the form, character and breeding of every horse and come to their own opinion of whether

    or not

    it will run to its very best or indeed improve

    under prevailing conditions

    .

    eg. If a horse by and out of stayers, runs at sprint trips before going up to a distance more condusive to its breeding – every knowledgeable punter can make his/her mind up how much improvement it will make and possibly take advantage of this. Alternatively, the punter does not have to bet in the race.

    The handicapper is not stupid, if a horse runs under vastly different conditions to its best, he will not drop the horse significantly. However, there are times when connections manipulate the rules by running their first three races under unsuitable conditions, to get a good handicap mark. There is nothing wrong with this as long as it does as good as it posssibly could under the unsuitable conditions. As said earlier, a knowledgeable punter can take advantage of these occurances. Either by their own work or a good form book.

    Nobody is saying "every animal is running on its merits on every occaision", just that the amount of skulduggery is vastly exaggerated by many punters.

    I don’t include you in this Coggy, but some punters (at least subconciously) SEEM to want to believe the game is "bent" so that it is not their own fault for backing losers / making an over all deficit.

    value is everything
    #369885
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    Ginger
    If you seriously believe there aren’t dozens of horses not run on their merits almost every day, then maybe it’s you that needs to buy a good form book (or, at least, interpret the one you have better)?

    Thanks for the advice Reet.
    Think my DLAP thread suggests I’m "interpret"ing my form book well enough at the moment. :wink:

    value is everything
    #369887
    thehorsesmouththehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5480

    "Gingertipster" wrote: Think my DLAP thread suggests I’m "interpret"ing my form book well enough at the moment. :wink:

    At least some one is, my form book might as well be in Arabic at the moment! :lol:

    #369889
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26575

    We all go through a losing run now and again THM. :wink:

    value is everything
    #369906
    GeorgeJ
    Participant
    • Total Posts 160

    Gingertipster

    I only analyse handicaps, and better class ones at that, and of course may be as blind as a bat, but I agree with you. Over the last eight or so years I’ve been taking matters seriously, I have only once felt that a horse I had backed had been "pulled". I’ve had reason to think the occasional jockey might have ridden a more enterprising race, and have had occasion to think I have been unlucky (especially when a horse I backed dropped dead in running) but almost always decent handicappers run more or less as one would expect from their career performances and the actual conditions of the race in question.

    It is not so much that some people need to buy a Form Book, or make use of the excellent free aspects of the Post website, as they need to learn HOW to read them. And in all fairness that is not easily achieved – one can have properly structured lessons in order to learn to drive, use programs such as MS Excel, etc. etc, but I don’t think I’ve yet seen anyone credible offering lessons in how to read the Form Book.

    #372032
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    You turned the wrong road mate. Betfair forum is second on the right. :roll:

    Or should that be "wrong"?

    Maybe he is so p*ssed at the situation he missed the right one. BF got some nice ratings at the moment. :mrgreen:

    http://imagicon.info/cat/10-3/1.gif

    #372041
    KenhKenh
    Participant
    • Total Posts 738

    Stone the crows.

    I’m starting to remember why I had Cormack delete my original account.

    If you believe the sport is ‘terrible terrible’ then why continue to patronise it?

    I have pretty similar feelings to you. I have always wondered why people who think the sport is so bent continue to follow it so closely.

    I find exactly the same thing in the poker world. The continuous accusations that the online poker sites are rigged (against them off course)yet they still continue to play. The accusations normally come after their Aces have been outdrawn. Strangely they never seem to make the same accusations when they outdraw aces.

    #372053
    fitzer1987fitzer1987
    Participant
    • Total Posts 221

    Of course every single horse that runs in every race in the UK or Ireland is sent out to win, to run completely on its merrits and every jockey tries his best and hardest to achieve the best possible place.

    Of course :lol: :lol:

    Bad jockey’s, slow horses and bent trainners!! Thats all mythical!!

    The racing post should have a new symbol on the racecard!! T or NT, ask the trainner to delcare their intentions when they enter the horse!! Cant see it catching on mind!! :lol: :lol:

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