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Today, I had the first chance in about fifteen years to watch Channel Four Racing.
Honestly, I am not sure what to make of it all…
Nick Luck was good as the presenter. But I did not like the way he would interview a jockey before he even got off the horse. Don’t think I would like that as a jock… Not sure what skills he really brings to the job that are outstanding but he seems at home doing it.
John Francome and Alice Plunkett may as well just be reading cued soundbites, so little time is given to paddock commentary and observing the runners on the way to post one has to ask if it really is worth it.
Is this the same Simon Holt I knew? It seemed as if he was almost falling asleep during the opening novice hurdle. I can understand a little editorializing in race commentary but I don’t really want to hear Simon’s thoughts on the Triumph Hurdle as the horses are going down the far side. He really did raise his game for the Racing Post Chase, though. Neither do I want or need an update on the Scoop 6 during a racecall and I cannot for the life of me understand the decision of the director to go back and highlight a fall while a race is being run!
That said the camera work was superb but to me it was quite obvious when Simon was just reading the race off the monitor, though not to the extent of Thommo, on whom more later. When I have heard Simon racecourse commentate online, he seemed to be a lot better than Saturday, but we all have slightly off days.
Jim McGrath at Newcastle I thought did an ok one man band kind of job. Got tongue tied a few times and never gave us the correct jockey change for one race. In the information age, not to give that info is not very good, imo. Nice to see he is still wearing the same kind of winter flat cap after 25 years, though!
Derek Thompson remains a mystery to me. I still think there is no one more talented at broadcasting in the racing media who regularly doesn’t maximize his effectiveness. It is painfully obvious he is reading the race solely off the monitor and not learning the colours. Yet, I know he can learn them (listen to him from fifteen years ago) and read the race through binoculars.
John McCririck worries me. He hardly seems to move any more and his voice is getting very tired. Of course, we all grow old. But I hope he is in good health. Seems to work well with Lydia, who like Alice, I thought was good and probably would be better if given a little more free rein. I am not saying the ladies should sound public school educated but especially for Alice stuck with Francome’s accent, a little voice work on reducing the accent of "estuary english" for both Alice and Lydia would make them into top notch racing broadcasters.
That said, the whole broadcast really seemed to lack cohesion and often seemed to be improvised. I think it would be better to clear up the action, review and so on at one track, go to the next for the following race and then back to the other and so on to have some kind of uniformity to the broadcast.
If Andrew Franklin reads this, it’s been twenty years since I did work experience with you and if you like I can offer my services as commentator and or Production Consultant at a very reasonable price!
Feel free to disagree, agree, make death threats!
Craig
Seems to work well with Lydia,
Lydia was working on RUK on Saturday. Did you mean Tania, perhaps?
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Craig
Why are accents important?
I was born and brought up hundreds of miles away from Francome, Stevenson et al and I can understand everything they say.
To respond to your comments on C4 and Simon Holt:
I think Holt does a great job on Channel 4 and is my favourite of all the presenters and commentators. The demands of commentating for C4 are very different to course commentary.
Out of his hands, he has to mention the Scoop 6 and sometimes hand over to get some "expert" opinions midrace. I think Holt’s digressings into talking about, for example, the Triumph Hurdle are perfectly appropriate.
Channel 4 Racing is perhaps overdramatic at times, but they really bring out the magic of the sport. The Cheltenham Festival is of course the centerpiece so it’s important for them to eagerly build up to it as they do throughout the season. C4 is not the channel to please the racing anoraks. It is entertainment as much as it is sport, widening the audience beyond the racing fraternity.
It was watching Channel 4 Racing from the age of five that got me hooked on the sport and taught me the basics. I am surely not alone in this. As racing is a sport that will never compete with football etc, this must be a good thing for attracting the "fresh blood" into the game. Surely we cannot begrudge them dumbing down a bit to attract the newbies. You still get to watch the races, right?
Returning to my point about Simon Holt, he is brilliant at conveying the excitement of the big races. Some find him shouty, but I like this. He comes across as a very nice, dignified fella on camera so when he goes into overdrive behind the mic the impact is even more powerful.
His digressing also encourages the newbie to tune in again. He turns the jump racing season into something of an
ongoing story
, making you come back to watch Cheltenham to see how it all ends!
I concur with your point about Tommo’s commentary on the Eider.
He called some of the horses in completely the wrong order which I concluded was because he was watching, and misinterpreting, the TV pictures.
I often feel nostalgic about the old Channel 4 racing days when they covered 4 races in two hours and had lots of time to fill in between. I even had a fondness for Big Mac and his steamers and back then in the 80’s I had no knowledge of Thommo and his contemptible tipping line activities so he didn’t grate the way he does now.
How many of the current C4 team have been on the go since Thatcher and Reagan’s first terms, to be doing the same thing for that long is odd to me unless you have proven your better than anyone else at it.
Mike Cattermole should be made more use of as a presenter, more of a common touch than Nick Luck is how I would see it.
Simon Holts’ comments at the end of races stay in my mind forever; perhaps more so than the race itself, especially the King George…was it Florida Pearl’s year when he said..and no horse deserves it more…he just conveys his own love of the sport without getting hysterical [well, most of the time anyway..]
There’s nothing wrong with Lydia’s accent – nothing at all.
I laughed when Big Mac ( he’s going downhill fast
) called Nick Luck, Lord Sooty. 
Even so, I think Nick Luck is very good.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Is this the same Simon Holt I knew? It seemed as if he was almost falling asleep during the opening novice hurdle. I can understand a little editorializing in race commentary but I don’t really want to hear Simon’s thoughts on the Triumph Hurdle as the horses are going down the far side. He really did raise his game for the Racing Post Chase, though. Neither do I want or need an update on the Scoop 6 during a racecall and I cannot for the life of me understand the decision of the director to go back and highlight a fall while a race is being run!
That said the camera work was superb but to me it was quite obvious when Simon was just reading the race off the monitor, though not to the extent of Thommo, on whom more later. When I have heard Simon racecourse commentate online, he seemed to be a lot better than Saturday, but we all have slightly off days.
Derek Thompson remains a mystery to me. I still think there is no one more talented at broadcasting in the racing media who regularly doesn’t maximize his effectiveness. It is painfully obvious he is reading the race solely off the monitor and not learning the colours. Yet, I know he can learn them (listen to him from fifteen years ago) and read the race through binoculars.
Craig[/quote)
Extremely accurate assesments of both commentators.
Tommo freely admits he does all his commentaries off the monitor as he says that’s what the viewer is seeing, I would think time constraints preclude him from doing the neccesary homework (colours etc).
As for Simon Holt you are spot on, as I’ve mentioned before in the commentators polls he has a much different style for C4.
He is just as effective doing racecourse commentary and is one of my favs but I’m not keen at all on his C4 style, it can be quite annoying and I can’t see what the point of the different style of commentary is for when it’s not as good.Is this the same Simon Holt I knew? It seemed as if he was almost falling asleep during the opening novice hurdle. I can understand a little editorializing in race commentary but I don’t really want to hear Simon’s thoughts on the Triumph Hurdle as the horses are going down the far side. He really did raise his game for the Racing Post Chase, though. Neither do I want or need an update on the Scoop 6 during a racecall and I cannot for the life of me understand the decision of the director to go back and highlight a fall while a race is being run!
That said the camera work was superb but to me it was quite obvious when Simon was just reading the race off the monitor, though not to the extent of Thommo, on whom more later. When I have heard Simon racecourse commentate online, he seemed to be a lot better than Saturday, but we all have slightly off days.
Derek Thompson remains a mystery to me. I still think there is no one more talented at broadcasting in the racing media who regularly doesn’t maximize his effectiveness. It is painfully obvious he is reading the race solely off the monitor and not learning the colours. Yet, I know he can learn them (listen to him from fifteen years ago) and read the race through binoculars.
Craig
Hi Yeats:
I have a tremendous amount of respect for Derek Thompson and Simon Holt. Both are very nice men who have always been very helpful to me. If Thommo freely admits that, fair play to him. I have learned a lot from Simon and I am sure I will continue to do so in the future.
I think Simon is definitely one of the top two commentators in the country together with Lee Mckenzie.
Craig
Craig
Why are accents important?
I was born and brought up hundreds of miles away from Francome, Stevenson et al and I can understand everything they say.
Hi ReasonoverFaith:
I may be unfair. The further and longer I am away from England the less attuned I am to British accents.Even watching British TV now, I sometimes miss some of the dialog when first hearing it.
Similarly, some people (especially in England) now say I sound more American than British in my commentaries even though I try to practice a received pronunciation accent.
To respond to your comments on C4 and Simon Holt:
I think Holt does a great job on Channel 4 and is my favourite of all the presenters and commentators. The demands of commentating for C4 are very different to course commentary.
Out of his hands, he has to mention the Scoop 6 and sometimes hand over to get some "expert" opinions midrace. I think Holt’s digressings into talking about, for example, the Triumph Hurdle are perfectly appropriate.
Channel 4 Racing is perhaps overdramatic at times, but they really bring out the magic of the sport. The Cheltenham Festival is of course the centerpiece so it’s important for them to eagerly build up to it as they do throughout the season. C4 is not the channel to please the racing anoraks. It is entertainment as much as it is sport, widening the audience beyond the racing fraternity.
It was watching Channel 4 Racing from the age of five that got me hooked on the sport and taught me the basics. I am surely not alone in this. As racing is a sport that will never compete with football etc, this must be a good thing for attracting the "fresh blood" into the game. Surely we cannot begrudge them dumbing down a bit to attract the newbies. You still get to watch the races, right?
Returning to my point about Simon Holt, he is brilliant at conveying the excitement of the big races. Some find him shouty, but I like this. He comes across as a very nice, dignified fella on camera so when he goes into overdrive behind the mic the impact is even more powerful.
His digressing also encourages the newbie to tune in again. He turns the jump racing season into something of an
ongoing story
, making you come back to watch Cheltenham to see how it all ends!
Hi The Young Fella!
No question Simon is a very nice and dignified fella!
At my gig last year I was asked to dumb it down to such a degree, I wont use the television part in my demo reel. If C4 racing caught you as a fan at a young age, why does it need to be dumbed down now?
Craig
I often feel nostalgic about the old Channel 4 racing days when they covered 4 races in two hours and had lots of time to fill in between. I even had a fondness for Big Mac and his steamers and back then in the 80’s I had no knowledge of Thommo and his contemptible tipping line activities so he didn’t grate the way he does now.
How many of the current C4 team have been on the go since Thatcher and Reagan’s first terms, to be doing the same thing for that long is odd to me unless you have proven your better than anyone else at it.
Mike Cattermole should be made more use of as a presenter, more of a common touch than Nick Luck is how I would see it.
Hi Spitfire!
When C4 racing started there were still some saturdays they covered two tracks and it seems as if the broadcasts were more (and better) structured than they appeared to be this Saturday.
I think most of the senior members of the C4 Racing Team have more than earned their stripes.
I know nothing of Derek Thompson’s tipping line but am not sure I would ever play any of his suggestions unless it was for entertainment value!
I thought Nick Luck was good.
The monitor vs bins debate is an interesting one.
I know when I am racing I use the bins whenever possible and only revert to the screen when absolutely necessary.
Cleraly different callers have different preferences – for example I was at Plumpton yesterday and I noticed Richard was doing over 90% of the call using bins – having said that the viewing at Plumpton is excellent which helps. I’m sure Richard will not mind me saying that he does prefer using bins to the monitor wherever possible and Lee is another.
Conversely there are some callers who work almost exclusively from the monitor and, with most, I would defy you to tell the difference.
There are, however, some courses where the commentary boxes are not in good positions. As well as being badly positioned they often have camera positions nearby which severely restrict the view. I think it is a common misconception that commentary boxes are invariably in the best positions. There are a couple of courses where, I think without exception, the commentators say they would actually be better off doing the commentary from a studio.
At many courses there are large parts of the course which cannot be seen clearly from the box some of the worse ones being Cartmel, Donny, Newcastle, Perth, Kelso and Huntingdon.
Regarding Saturday’s commentaries – I can understand Simon working from the monitor as he was calling exclusively for C4, so he will be gearing the call for what is being shown on the TV.
For me the biggest danger of calling from the monitor is the forshortening of distances, you would need to be very aware of the camera angles. I have seen a few examples where the commentator has called the first and second being close when, in fact watching through bins, there has been quite a gap. It is only when you see the TV replay and it looks so different.
That’s a great, well thought out and insightful response PaulO. As a viewer we sometimes find it difficult to understand why what is being said seems to bear little relationship to what we can see on screen, forgetting that the commentator is possibly hamstrung by his view through obstacles or binoculars and vice-versa. Personally, I sometimes find it frustrating when the camera focuses on the stragglers coming to a fence when the main tactical battle is being fought up ahead, a situation which could, I think, be resolved if the producer instructed the camera person to pan out. Might I just ask if there are many women commentators around or do the listening audiences worldwide prefer a deeper tone of voice? It might be sexist on my part but when I hear some of those screechy, whiny, trackside presenters stateside it just seems to grate on my nerves and is a real turn-off.
Cheers
KenAnyone who uses bins a lot gets full marks from me while anyone who relys almost solely on monitors smacks of being lazy although everything is dependant on accuracy at the end of the day. Wonder how many commentators never use bins?
I would disagree Paul that it is difficult to tell what a commentator is using a lot of the time as Craig proved with is very accurate original post although he is a commentator of course.
I would be surprised if Tommo or GG used bins much and despite being regularly pictured next to a big battered old pair of bins on the Beeb I’d be surprised if Jim McGrath used them much during a race, you can tell by his commentary whereas Peter O’Sullevan used them frequently.
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