- This topic has 30 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Suspicious?
Who cares?
May be Townend and Cooper, but look at the balls up Townend made of Boston Bob. Cooper is massively promising, but inexperienced for a ride like this. A few ante-post punters on Sunnyhillboy may not like it, but connections wouldn’t need any reason to take the horse out before the overnight stage.In my opinion if Sunnyhillboy is fit and well – JP isn’t my favourite owner, but it is a wonderful gesture to take the horse out and enable AP to ride Sir Des. It is a shame they need to make any excuses at all to withdraw.
Would you be so sanguine if it had been a horse on which you had an ante-post bet?
Yet another example of a big stable cocking a snook at the rules.
The BHA should be asking questions about when the horse was scoped, it isn’t normal to scope a horse on the day of a race. If it was scoped yesterday why wasn’t it withdrawn yesterday?
The self certification rules are a farce, be it an example like today or a horse being pulled out because it has a poor draw at a course like Chester or Beverley.
Self serfs are a "farce", but
in this case
I couldn’t care less if rules are broken.
Very definitely yes Paul, I would be "so sanguine" if it had been my ante-post bet pulled out…
But if I had my way Paul, there’d be no need for Sunny to come out. With "special dispensation" given by stewards under exceptional circumstances. Exactly as Graham Cunningham has just suggested. Punters would then know how they stand.
Value Is EverythingNot 100%
au fait
with ante-post rules, but I thought AP ‘all in run or not’ wagers were refunded in the event of a horse being withdrawn on the ‘day of race’ i.e. after the final overnights are declared. In which case those on Sunnyhillboy will be, won’t they?
Not so Drone, ante-post bets are lost if a horse does not run for whatever reason.
Value Is EverythingGingertipster,
It is a very poor rule that would allow Ruby Walsh to switch from Silviniaco Conti to Sir Des Champs, if he wanted to but not AP McCoy from Sunnyhillboy to Sir Des Champs.
Are you sure that is the case Eddie?
Value Is EverythingGingertipster,
It is a very poor rule that would allow Ruby Walsh to switch from Silviniaco Conti to Sir Des Champs, if he wanted to but not AP McCoy from Sunnyhillboy to Sir Des Champs.
Are you sure that is the case Eddie?
That’s what they said this morning on C4 with him being stable jockey with Mullins but they didn’t mention that a few minutes ago so I have my doubts.
What are "exceptional circumstances"? One owner’s gold cup today at Cheltenham might be another owner’s at a wet Hexham in the middle of winter. The rules of racing are there for a reason and should be applied consistently.
If this were to happen on the all weather and a coup was landed the usual stink would be kicked up. I accept there is no coup today but it doesn’t sit well with me.
What are "exceptional circumstances"? One owner’s gold cup today at Cheltenham might be another owner’s at a wet Hexham in the middle of winter. The rules of racing are there for a reason and should be applied consistently.
If this were to happen on the all weather and a coup was landed the usual stink would be kicked up. I accept there is no coup today but it doesn’t sit well with me.
The original jockey jocked up (Davy Russell) is
known
(or suspected) to have a spontanious punctured lung. That’s "exceptional circumstances" in my book. If the jockey can’t make it because of anything comparitively minor etc would not be "exceptional".
Davy Russell missing good rides yesterday another factor.
Value Is EverythingThe rule that Paul Ostermeyer printed earlier makes no mention of a trainer being able to switch a jockey from one of his horses to another in the same race; unless I misread that rule. So should we assume that the Stewards made special dispensation for David Casey to hop off Abbey Lane in the 2:05 to replace the declared but injured Paul Townend on Tennis Cap. Casey was replaced on Abbey Lane by Katie Walsh. If that was the case, why could they not do the same for Sir Des Champs and Tony McCoy?
What are "exceptional circumstances"? One owner’s gold cup today at Cheltenham might be another owner’s at a wet Hexham in the middle of winter. The rules of racing are there for a reason and should be applied consistently.
If this were to happen on the all weather and a coup was landed the usual stink would be kicked up. I accept there is no coup today but it doesn’t sit well with me.
The original jockey jocked up (Davy Russell) is
known
(or suspected) to have a spontanious punctured lung. That’s "exceptional circumstances" in my book. If the jockey can’t make it because of anything comparitively minor etc would not be "exceptional".
Davy Russell missing good rides yesterday another factor.
That’s not exceptional, that’s racing. You didn’t see any other big name jockeys being switched around because Russell got injured. It might have been exceptional circumstances if they’d needed to switch around for the next race on Wednesday after Russell was sidelined, but for a race on the Friday there was plenty of time for the owner/trainer to book another jockey.
The rule that Paul Ostermeyer printed earlier makes no mention of a trainer being able to switch a jockey from one of his horses to another in the same race; unless I misread that rule. So should we assume that the Stewards made special dispensation for David Casey to hop off Abbey Lane in the 2:05 to replace the declared but injured Paul Townend on Tennis Cap. Casey was replaced on Abbey Lane by Katie Walsh. If that was the case, why could they not do the same for Sir Des Champs and Tony McCoy?
I believe MV, When a trainer has more than one horse declared for a race and the first-string’s jockey is injured; it is standard practice to move the second-string’s jockey up to ride the first string. And get another jockey in to ride the second-string.
In AP’s case it was different connections.
Value Is EverythingThat’s not exceptional, that’s racing.
A spontanious punctured lung "not exceptional" BG? I’d say it is.
A sponanious punctured lung; "that’s racing"?
No in my opinion it’s not. I hate that saying.Rule is there primarily to stop betting coups, Russell did not deliberately get a punctured lung. It’s the most important race of the season. I see no problem them changing jockeys.
Value Is EverythingGT – "Minor" or Major" is so open to interpretation – when does one become the other?That is why there needs to be a clearly defined rulebook.
Anyhow SDC ran a solid race and well done to connections. IF he had won a nose with a masterful, power packed McCoy ride beating Long Run (ridden by an amateur) then it would have left a slightly bitter taste.
Still that didn’t happen but I didn’t have time to make that point pre-race!
GT – "Minor" or Major" is so open to interpretation – when does one become the other? That is why there needs to be a clearly defined rulebook.
The only thing I would say against today’s events is the change should be informed to the stewards before 7:30 on day of race; so media can be informed by 8:00 am. I feel sure that (if Sunny is ok) the decision could’ve been made earlier today.
One possible rule:
Grade 1 races and Grand National only:
Jockey needs to be seen by either the course doctor or hopitalised with a definate severe injury that prevents him/her from riding. A cold, bad arm etc is not good enough.
Jockeys warned if they try to fake anything, their license will be taken away and the rule changed back. (So if they did try to fake something, other jockeys are bound to turn on them).
Value Is EverythingThe rule that Paul Ostermeyer printed earlier makes no mention of a trainer being able to switch a jockey from one of his horses to another in the same race; unless I misread that rule. So should we assume that the Stewards made special dispensation for David Casey to hop off Abbey Lane in the 2:05 to replace the declared but injured Paul Townend on Tennis Cap. Casey was replaced on Abbey Lane by Katie Walsh. If that was the case, why could they not do the same for Sir Des Champs and Tony McCoy?
I believe MV, When a trainer has more than one horse declared for a race and the first-string’s jockey is injured; it is standard practice to move the second-string’s jockey up to ride the first string. And get another jockey in to ride the second-string.
In AP’s case it was different connections.
It seems that “standard practice” is against the rules. Although booked for a second string, David Casey is not retained by Willie Mullins, even if he was booked to ride one of his horses. Neither of these two is in a priviliged position according to the rules.
No in my opinion it’s not. I hate that saying.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.