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Supplementing horses – right or wrong?

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  • #21664
    reetlass
    Member
    • Total Posts 433

    Seeing that a couple of horses have been supplemented for this weekend’s Guineas, what is your opinion of supplementing in general, please?

    #402685
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    I think a procedure which enables connections to enter a horse which has shown ability that was perhaps not anticipated at the initial entry stage of these races is a good thing from the point of view of the quality of the race.

    I’m not sure I entirely agree with the very longwinded entry process for those races though. I cannot think of a compelling reason why entries for these races have to be made so far in advance of the race itself especially when this frequently involves having to enter a horse before it has even seen a racetrack.

    #402689
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28448

    Enries some way before the race helps increase prize money Tuffers.

    As an ante-post punter I have no objection to supplementary entries. We know the rules when placing a bet and… Personally I don’t go through every runner to find the "value" when betting months in advance, judging it instead by what is required to win an average Guineas, Derby or whatever.

    What is best for the punter should not always be the first consideration anyway. It is in Racing’s best interest to have the best horses running in the best races. As long as these supplementaries happen at the 5 day stage and not "overnight" I see no problem.

    However… I’m totally against "reserves" (like they have in Ireland) in big Handicaps etc. If I study the Day Of Race entries, I’m judging each horse against the next. If something suddenly comes in to the frame @ 11/4 after a non-runner, then that takes out around 25% of the book. What’s more, bookmakers have to price up the race allowing for that eventuallity; so presumably bet to a bigger over-round until the whole line up is known.

    Value Is Everything
    #402690
    betlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2789

    Personally I don’t go through every runner to find the "value" when betting months in advance

    You don’t want to say things like that on here. There’s this one bloke….

    Mike

    #402696
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    Enries some way before the race helps increase prize money Tuffers.

    I appreciate that is the compelling reason for the entry rules for the various sales races but surely it’s not a compelling argument for the classics?

    #402701
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1569

    I cannot recall when they re-introduced the very early stage for the Derby but it has done much to help the race. The initial low fee means that the dream lives, even if only for a short time. The fact that the entries fell to 442 for 2013 is more an indication that the economic depression is much worse than it is painted.

    #402723
    cliffo38
    Participant
    • Total Posts 37

    i have no problem if someone wants to stump up the cash but i do have a problem if the horse is entered purely for pace making purposes

    #402750
    honeysdad
    Participant
    • Total Posts 163

    I think supplementary entries should only be allowed if safety numbers allow. I think its wrong if someone has gone through the normal entry process then find themselves pushed out by a late entry.This happened in the Derby a few years ago.

    Mind you the grade one flat isn’t really about sport is it otherwise geldings would be allowed to run in the classics.

    #402753
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28448

    I think supplementary entries should only be allowed if safety numbers allow. I think its wrong if someone has gone through the normal entry process then find themselves pushed out by a late entry.This happened in the Derby a few years ago.

    Mind you the grade one flat isn’t really about sport is it otherwise geldings would be allowed to run in the classics.

    Honeysdad,
    If Jump racing produced stallions, do you think jump racing would allow Geldings in the "Classics"?

    At least in Britain geldings are allowed in open aged Group 1’s, unlike in France. Cirrus Des Aigles can’t take part in the Arc.

    Value Is Everything
    #402760
    yeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3094

    I wonder how the figures would stack up if rather than have lots of entries in the first place the likes of Godolphin & Coolmore waited till 6 days before a race and supplemented any they wanted to run?

    #402795
    Venusian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1665

    I’m torn on this one.

    In the days before supplementing, you got situations where the best horse or horses couldn’t run in their championship races.

    Take Vaguely Noble, for instance, who would certainly won the Derby in 1968 had he been entered for the race. His non-entry was the reason Holliday sold him abroad after his 2-y-o career.

    On the other hand, having a few races where the prize pot is considerably increased by insisting that entries are made as yearlings, foals, or in utero, does have its attractions.

    Also, having new contenders parachuted in a few days before a big race rather kills off winter ante-post interest in the following season’s classics. It used to be quite a big deal, and put the names of Classic contenders very much in the public eye, even if they’d only run in a race or two, or even not at all.

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