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Quote from Gosden after the race
"I have to be honest with you, if she wasn’t the odds-on favourite I probably wouldn’t have run her"
If he is so upfront with the media he should have told the betting public of his thoughts before the race.
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To those of you complaining about trainers not talking about their runners – if you owned a horse who was a decent prospect, would you want the trainer talking up its prospects to all and sundry?
I most certainly would not.
The only person I would expect the trainer to discuss my horse with would be me. It is the owner who pays the bills and therefore it should be the owners decision regarding what information, if any, is divulged.
I would suggest that Sir Michael is of the "old school" who recognises his responsibility is, first and foremost, to the owner.
Indeed if I was an owner looking for a touch I would actively encourage dis-information about the horses prospects in an attempt to get a better price.
Frankly, I find this attitude archaic.
Isn’t what you’re saying is "it’s ok to cheat, as long as we keep it to ourselves", and isn’t that exactly the same reason any number of jockeys have been dragged through the disciplinary procedure – not for ‘not trying’, but for actually informing people when?
How on earth can racing ever have integrity, when there are people at the forefront of the sport who deem it okay to deliberately deceive the majority to line the pockets of the few?
As for listening to trainers, anyone who doesn’t is doing themselves a great dis-service imo. Of course they aren’t going to reveal everything, but (despite what some forumites would have you believe) they usually know a lot more about their charges than anyone else and, interpreted correctly, one can learn a great deal about how individuals train, place and race the horses in their care.
I check Ch 4’s teletext every day, and have had some good winners from listening to the trainers comments about their horses; both Ralph Beckett and Geoff Huffer were telling people to ignore their horses at their peril before the 2000gns and the Oaks. It’s probably much easier for a lesser known trainer to talk about their horses chance than a high profile trainer with a fancied horse.
. Perhaps it also depends who’s doing the interview.
Its an absolute disgrace that Stoute, O’Brien etc… get away as lightly as they on what are horse racings biggest days. Making these guys give out more information to the media on the big Group race days should be a priority in the coming BHA push to open up the sport and give it a wider appeal. How on earth can the general public engage with the sport from a non betting point of view if the principles involved don’t want to engage with present fans and potential newcomers to racing??
No other sport these days would put up with the attitude Stoute displayed over the weekend and nor should it.
Its an absolute disgrace that Stoute, O’Brien etc… get away as lightly as they do on what are horse racings biggest days. Making these guys give out more information to the media on the big Group race days should be a priority in the coming BHA push to open up the sport and give it a wider appeal. How on earth can the general public engage with the sport from a non betting point of view if the principles involved don’t want to engage with present fans and potential newcomers to racing??
No other sport these days would put up with the attitude Stoute displayed over the weekend and nor should it.
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There is no doubt in flat racing especialy there is a void and snobery exists. "After all old chap I do train one for Her Royal Highness and had dinner with Charles the other day" and all that jazz. They can’t and aren’t all like our beloved Nicky Henderson.
I must say though I would hate tobe a trainer or a jockey for that matter when it comes to the press in some cases.
You must master the art of lying without lying and that can be a very difficult thing to do.
Imagine the owner insisting you tell no one anything. Then you are in a situation where your on TV and asked about his horse and will it run or not.
Not the easiest situation to get out of and keep smiling I would imagine
Apparently, Sir Michael ( "Stoutey" to the boys
) will talk to you all day about cricket – if you’re interested in such trivial pursuits. 
Jonjo O’Neill is another who says a lot without saying anything. Sir Michael would get along well with him. I bet they wouldn’t tell one another the time without an air of suspicion and waffle atttached.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
How do you feel Football supporters would feel if the management of their clubs refused to communicate anything with them whatsover either before of after the games?
When was the last time you heard the likes of Ferguson or Wenger openly discussing tactics before a game?
Or making an honest, unbiased, meaningful assesment of what happened after a game?
They go through the motions because they are forced to attend press conferences.
When was the last time you genuinely heard anyting meaningful from a manager before or after a game?
Most games I’d imagine, at least with reference to the two managers you just referenced.
The only person I would expect the trainer to discuss my horse with would be me. It is the owner who pays the bills and therefore it should be the owners decision regarding what information, if any, is divulged.
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Indeed if I was an owner looking for a touch I would actively encourage dis-information about the horses prospects in an attempt to get a better price.Dreadfully outdated, and in terms of promoting the sport in the 21st century, shortsighted views.
When was the last time you heard the likes of Ferguson or Wenger openly discussing tactics before a game?
Dont think anyone expects that level of detail pre Derby, Ledger, Guineas etc…no more than we would from any highly competitive and successful manager / team in any other sport.
However there must a communication middle ground surely, there is in other sports. Plenty of the biggest names in racing dont even come close to it.
When was the last time you heard the likes of Ferguson or Wenger openly discussing tactics before a game?
Dont think anyone expects that level of detail pre Derby, Ledger, Guineas etc…no more than we would from any highly competitive and successful manager / team in any other sport.
However there must a communication middle ground surely, there is in other sports. Plenty of the biggest names in racing dont even come close to it.
It’s a cliché but everyone is different and there are some who genuinely are not happy dealing with the media. For them, what is to be achieved by forcing them to be more “media friendly”?
Let’s be honest many think of “the media” as being a lower life form. Indeed, how many posters who complain about trainers not speaking to the media are the very same who are critical of the racing media. How, therefore, can they complain when trainers seem to share the same mistrust?
Heaven knows Ryan Moore is exasperating from a media perspective but he is clearly not happy with the PR side of things, so what would be achieved by forcing him to do something he is not happy with? (although he could decline to be interviewed with better grace than he normally does).
I am sure the owners he rides winners for would much prefer him to ride winners and be a miserable old sod, than for him to be concerned about having to be media friendly and that then distract him from his riding.
Similarly, does anyone really think any meaningful information will emerge from a trainer who has been press ganged into appearing at a press conference or interview?
Whilst it would be absolutely wonderful if every trainer and jockey were media friendly and open, it ain’t going to happen and at the end of the day their primary role is the actual training and race riding.
If media friendliness was a pre-requisite how many great sportsmen and women, across many fields, would we have been deprived of over the years?
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Its an absolute disgrace that Stoute, O’Brien etc… get away as lightly as they do on what are horse racings biggest days. Making these guys give out more information to the media on the big Group race days should be a priority in the coming BHA push to open up the sport and give it a wider appeal. How on earth can the general public engage with the sport from a non betting point of view if the principles involved don’t want to engage with present fans and potential newcomers to racing?
A little constructive criticism might help here. What sort of information would you suggest these top trainers give out to the "general public" to "open up the sport" and "give it a wider appeal" on the "biggest days"?
As they will also have to be saddling up animals worth millions of pounds, and ensuring their safety, I am intrigued to hear what suggestions you might come up with on their behalf. Bear in mind that they are not professional broadcasters, but professional horse handlers.
Frankly, I’m baffled by the tone of this thread. These gentlemens’ behaviour in the face of intrusive media microphones perpetually shoved in their faces seems courtesy itself to me. It certainly does not meet any definition of "absolute disgrace" that I can imagine.
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Whilst it would be absolutely wonderful if every trainer and jockey were media friendly and openWell if that’s what you believe why all the negativity and excuses.
If certain trainers can make the effort – and that’s what it comes down to – then they all can.
You make it sound as if Stoute and the like are going to thrown into a pool of piranhas. Personally, I don’t see any budding Paxmans out there. In fact the racing media are probably the most sycophantic group of any sports journalists.
A little constructive criticism might help here. What sort of information would you suggest these top trainers give out to the "general public" to "open up the sport" and "give it a wider appeal" on the "biggest days"?
As they will also have to be saddling up animals worth millions of pounds, and ensuring their safety, I am intrigued to hear what suggestions you might come up with on their behalf. Bear in mind that they are not professional broadcasters, but professional horse handlers.
Frankly, I’m baffled by the tone of this thread. These gentlemens’ behaviour in the face of intrusive media microphones perpetually shoved in their faces seems courtesy itself to me. It certainly does not meet any definition of "absolute disgrace" that I can imagine.
"Opening up the sport", "giving it a wider appeal" on the "biggest days" to the "general public" are all part of the current BHA remit on UK horseracing, not mine , you might want to bring yourself up to date on that.
"We’re very concerned about the ground for our odds on favourite in the 1000 Guineas so just like at Doncaster before the Lincoln with Expresso Star we’ve sent our head lad to walk the track this morning and his feedback has not been encouraging. Jimmy’s also walked the track and he confirms Rainbow will not be happy on it"…..said John Gosden minutes after arriving at the track at midday…..etc…etc…etc…
Bear in mind that they are not professional broadcasters, but professional horse handlers.
Wayne "emmm" Ronney is a professional footballer, not a professional broadcaster, he found it necessary to get coaching for his media "duties" as he would see them.
As they will also have to be saddling up animals worth millions of pounds, and ensuring their safety
Anytime I’ve seen a horse going berserk in the parade ring the trainers been nowhere near it, usually too busy in the huddle by that stage (circle the wagons, makes it harder for the cameras I say!)
72 hours after the 2000 Guineas has been run, a Classic race that has had millions of peoples time, interest and money invested in it, a race where SJ punters have put up the huge prizemoney and I still cant find ONE meaningful analysis or review of the race from the majority of the principles involved.
Disgrace all right, an absolute disgrace.
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"Opening up the sport", "giving it a wider appeal" on the "biggest days" to the "general public" are all part of the current BHA remit on UK horseracing, not mine , you might want to bring yourself up to date on that.
But as you seem to be demanding them too, I rather hoped for some enlightenment on what might be expected from these chatty trainers to "widen the appeal". Though wait a moment, here we are….
"We’re very concerned about the ground for our odds on favourite in the 1000 Guineas so just like at Doncaster before the Lincoln with Expresso Star we’ve sent our head lad to walk the track this morning and his feedback has not been encouraging. Jimmy’s also walked the track and he confirms Rainbow will not be happy on it"…..said John Gosden minutes after arriving at the track at midday…..etc…etc…etc…
Hmm. Quite how enlightening this sort of thing might be to the "general public" I am far from sure. Rather too many insider phrases, don’t you think? "Concerned about the ground … odds on … Doncaster and Lincoln [particularly confusing
that
one!] … head lad [a teenager?] … walk the track … will not be happy on it…." If that’s your notion of what this imagined "general public" should get, I think you’d better prepare some subtitles to put it into Plain English!
Mr Gosden’s statement of course makes perfect sense to a person who knows something about it, but I fancy those aren’t the persons who need "opening up" to the sport.
72 hours after the 2000 Guineas has been run, a Classic race that has had millions of peoples time, interest and money invested in it, a race where SJ punters have put up the huge prizemoney and I still cant find ONE meaningful analysis or review of the race from the majority of the principles involved.
Where have you been looking? Aside from a cogent analysis in the Racing Post, and admirable comments in running both there and on the Sporting Life website, there have been a number of reports from the connections of the horses concerned, including a very open and cogent interview between John Oxx and Gary O’Brien on ATR.
What more would you have? A public "I’m sorry" and full explanations on Newsnight from all the trainers of the beaten horses for "putting us away"? Three years warning off for Brian Meehan, who so bullishly misled the general public into thinking his horse would win,
pour encourager les autres
?
As Racing is a sport not unlike Poker, where keeping your cards close to your chest and bluffing are amongst the major skills to separate the best from the merely good, I fear you fundamentally (and fatally) misunderstand the nature of the beast if you expect it to be any different! Does it not occur to you that the hatching of well-laid, cunning plans in secret is part of the
fun
of the thing?!
Could you give the links to Aidan O Briens, Sir Michael Stoutes and Jim Bolgers detailed thoughts and analysis on their runners in the concerned races please, would be delighted to read them.
Heaven forbid John Gosden would get all technical with the great unwashed and use such baffling terms as "walking the track", "head lad", the title of a race and the name of a city in the one sentence. They’ll surely go into cranial meltdown when words such as "furlong" and "winning post" are introduced. Better to not even try, the NHS probably couldnt cope. Education, what’s education got to do with it?
My friends and family who never watch racing will of course become interested when informed that a major skill of horseracing is bluffing or as most them think its bent anyway they know this already and watch football instead.
What more would you have? A public "I’m sorry" and full explanations on Newsnight from all the trainers of the beaten horses for "putting us away"? Three years warning off for Brian Meehan, who so bullishly misled the general public into thinking his horse would win, pour encourager les autres?
What relevance that has to do with this discussion is beyond me, but 10 out of 10 for the use of French (granted the "general public" probably would be lost with that one, I know am)
Dont apply for a job at the BHA anytime soon.
FOBT salesman definitely.
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