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Starting Stalls Question

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  • #7529
    Avatar photonighthorse
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    • Total Posts 385

    As we go into another Flat season I want to raise a question that bothers me every summer :?

    In nearly every flat race there is usually one or more horses that don’t want to enter the stalls, sometimes reacting very violently. This is obviously dangerous for horse, jockey and handlers, not to mention not being fair on horses that are loaded, being disturbed and kept waiting while the shenanigans go on behind them.

    Why are trainers not penalised or given a warning about bringing horses to the course that are not trained to enter the stalls with minimum fuss? Are there no rules about this dangerous behaviour and the disruption it causes?

    #159046
    Wallace
    Participant
    • Total Posts 862

    Trainers are regularly issued with warning notices about horses difficult at the start. In some cases they are also require to have horses undertake stalls tests before being allowed to enter for future races.

    #159048
    Avatar photoPompete
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    • Total Posts 2390

    The BBC ran a short series with Kelly Marks on this subject last year.

    Part Two is about horses being re-trained, having been suspened from racing, to enter the stalls. I think this is the link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOFgouCdbf8

    #159049
    MCFC Stan
    Member
    • Total Posts 377

    Its also a bit like practising penalties after training in football. While you may hone your technique and succeed every time in front of your team mates its a lot different to doing it in front of a big crowd. Some horses get worked up come race day and while they may be ok at home, become different beats with a crowd, after travelling miles in a horse box etc.

    #159050
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3701

    When safety is supposed to be paramount I worry about the continued use of blindfolds when entering the stalls, they seem like a disaster waiting to happen, a horse running loose with a blindfold on doesn’t bear thinking about. I think it was one of Tim Easterby’s collided with a car after running loose with a blindfold on and had a massive wound that was bleeding profusely on it’s chest, the car didn’t look too good as well. I certainly don’t think blindfolds should be tucked in the bridle like they often are.

    #159095
    Grey Desire
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1938

    It would appear that a stalls incident has just claimed the life of the formerly classy sprinter Fayr Jag at Pontefract.

    #159096
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    Sickening incident. I haven’t got a view on whether it was the stalls to blame ~ but the old boy didn’t deserve to go like that. :(

    #159105
    Avatar photoDrone
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    • Total Posts 6347

    Aye, horrid incident. Caught a glimpse of him standing when they showed the head on, so hopes were raised for a second or two…but presumably a badly broken leg/shoulder.

    Fayr Jag was a grand servant

    #159129
    Avatar photoRockytony
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    • Total Posts 96

    I think after today’s incident with Fayr Jag the use of blindfolds really have to be looked at, the way the horse ran into the stalls was heartbreaking, believe me I’m not soft when it comes to racing but that was beyond the pale :(

    #159138
    Neil Watson
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1376

    All this talk of starting stalls reminds me of a story a friend of mine told me.

    At Pontefract one day Alan Bailey had a horse down at the start for a race and sadly the horse got a bit wound up and sadly through panicking ended up collapsing and died while in the stalls.

    Alan was very saddened by all this and when the call came through from the stewards he asked Jack Berry what he should say and JB told to just be honest with them and tell the truth about it.

    When called into the stewards room the main head steward turned to Alan and said to him, "So Mr Bailey could you explain why your horse did that down at the start" to which Alan replied

    "Im sorry sir but he’s never done that before".

    #159141
    ahitchcott
    Member
    • Total Posts 60

    In my opinion there should be bans for horses who refuse to enter the stalls. Its the equivalant of a footballer not being on the pitch in time!

    Other horses are disrupted and i feel the outcome of the race may even differ as result of the antics of the 100/1 shot keeping the others waiting for 5 mins

    #159147
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    "ahitchcott":2dx1y5i5 wrote: In my opinion there should be bans for horses who refuse to enter the stalls. Its the equivalant of a footballer not being on the pitch in time!

    Other horses are disrupted and i feel the outcome of the race may even differ as result of the antics of the 100/1 shot keeping the others waiting for 5 mins

    There is a process whereby horses can be banned – unfortunately I don’t have my copy of the rulebook with me at the moment to be able to quote quote chapter and verse.

    At the end of the day it is down to the starter to refer horses that misbehave for stalls tests. If you ever go to a flat meeting it is not unusual – about an hour before the first race to see horses having on course stalls tests.

    But I agree it is not fair for runners to be held in the stalls whilst another runner plays up.

    For all its faults it is very rare to see a horse playing up at the start in American racing – they must be doing something right – but I suppose it comes down to money at the end of the day

    #159149
    Adrian
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    • Total Posts 1041

    There are hundreds of horses on the BHA list who would need to pass a stalls test if they wanted to run on the flat again. Many are just retired or sent jumping.

    Even masters of their profession like Sir Michael Stoute have such characters as Stellar Brilliant and Wasseema still on the list.

    I was tickled by some of the names on the list which seem somewhat appropriate now – Bodgetandscarper, Blindspin and Bad Intentions !

    #159220
    MCFC Stan
    Member
    • Total Posts 377

    I think yesterday’s was just a very unfortunate accident, to blame it on blindfolds or stalls is knee jerking and wrong, plenty of horses use blindfolds and don’t run into the stalls, ban fences because a horse falls and fatally injured himself when plenty of horses jumped the fence without injury. Its a bit like the water jump debate, for every bad accident, hundreds of horses get over them without any problems.

    #159244
    Avatar photoRockytony
    Member
    • Total Posts 96

    I think yesterday’s was just a very unfortunate accident, to blame it on blindfolds or stalls is knee jerking and wrong, plenty of horses use blindfolds and don’t run into the stalls, ban fences because a horse falls and fatally injured himself when plenty of horses jumped the fence without injury. Its a bit like the water jump debate, for every bad accident, hundreds of horses get over them without any problems.

    But the difference with the jumps is the horse has got a chance, if it doesn’t want to jump it will refuse, Fayr Jag had no chance I watched the incident live and the horse was in an agitated state it had been turned so had lost its bearings, and then a blindfold was placed on, it broke free from the stall staff and ran straight into the stalls, I’m sorry but imo the blindfold was to blame it gave the horse no chance.

    #159247
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3701

    I think yesterday’s was just a very unfortunate accident, to blame it on blindfolds or stalls is knee jerking and wrong, plenty of horses use blindfolds and don’t run into the stalls, ban fences because a horse falls and fatally injured himself when plenty of horses jumped the fence without injury. Its a bit like the water jump debate, for every bad accident, hundreds of horses get over them without any problems.

    I don’t like to say I predicted something like this would happen but I did yesterday. Losing Fayr Jag was bad enough but things could have been a whole lot worse, what if the horse had managed to keep the blindfold on and ran like the clappers into the crowd or some concrete posts?
    Blindfolds should be banned, my heart is in my mouth when I see a stalls handler tuck one into a horses bridle. Jumping fences a horse can see.
    I’m surprised blindfolds are allowed by health and safety.

    #159250
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2923

    I know one incident is one too many, and I agree that I don’t like to see the blindfold being tucked in, but the number of incidents being caused by the blindfold compared to the number of times it is used is perceptively very small.

    I would also agree that without the blindfold on the incident wouldn’t have happened yesterday, but until we get to the position when the horses are so well-trained that they go in without any problem, it is difficult to see the use of blindfolds being outlawed.

    Colin

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