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Says it all really , when the owner of this forum describes Arkle as just another horse with 4 legs
nuff said
clueless …..
imo
No Horse will ever exceed Arkle , they built the rules around him , he was truly invincible , and will always remain so
Clueless comment from a poster that thankfully we hear little from these days.
Nuff said.
Imo
Joni Bake
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Of course if we use the old timeline argument then sooner or later a horse may emerge that will supercede Arkle.
However, I think it is highly unlikely.
Why ? Because no horse will be asked to concede such horrendous amounts of weight to their talented contemporaries – and still win.
For proof, if any proof was needed; look no further than The Gallher Gold Cup, which was contested at a sunny Sandown Park on the 6th day of November, 1965.
In my opinion, here is the greatest display from any national hunt chaser, from then ( and arguably before ) to this day.
Arkle (12.7 ) destroyed Rondetto ( 10.9 ) Mill House 11.5 ) by 20 odd lengths in a course record time of 5m 59s – a record which still stands to this day.
Thankfully, you can see the latter part of this race on YouTube.
A sight to behold.
Name any other horse you wish, but I am certain they would not have troubled Arkle at all this day. He was at his supreme, superlative best – and he could have gone round again and won. That’s how good he was. When I hear all this nonsense of how Kauto Star, Denman or Desert Orchid would have shown him a clean pair of heels etc, I just laugh all the more louder.Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
If he wasn’t a horse with four legs RL what on earth was he? The second coming? A space alien?
:mrgreen: I gotcha Corm …..
By reduced I did not mean in terms of volume and traffic
you know that …and yet you reach for the stats….poor boy
I meant much reduced in stature , much reduced in terms of the overall quality of threads and posters
Indeed things are so gloomy , that you have to start a thread to get the feathers flying ……
However , in fairness its still a good place to visit , wind up its owner occasionally , even if you think he does a good job overall …..
I gotcha though
Ricky
Proper comedian you are.
Of course if we use the old timeline argument then sooner or later a horse may emerge that will supercede Arkle.
However, I think it is highly unlikely.
Why ? Because no horse will be asked to concede such horrendous amounts of weight to their talented contemporaries – and still win.
For proof, if any proof was needed; look no further than The Gallher Gold Cup, which was contested at a sunny Sandown Park on the 6th day of November, 1965.
In my opinion, here is the greatest display from any national hunt chaser, from then ( and arguably before ) to this day.
Arkle (12.7 ) destroyed Rondetto ( 10.9 ) Mill House 11.5 ) by 20 odd lengths in a course record time of 5m 59s – a record which still stands to this day.
Thankfully, you can see the latter part of this race on YouTube.
A sight to behold.
Name any other horse you wish, but I am certain they would not have troubled Arkle at all this day. He was at his supreme, superlative best – and he could have gone round again and won. That’s how good he was. When I hear all this nonsense of how Kauto Star, Denman or Desert Orchid would have shown him a clean pair of heels etc, I just laugh all the more louder.I am in total agreement with you.
I love watching exciting racehorses. I enjoy the speculation and banter when new exceptional horses appear. But since well before Arkle’s day there have been well documented records of all races . The data is in the books. There is video evidence to confirm the written data. You do not have to rely only on people’s opinions. Arkle has always been, and in all probability always will be, without peer, without equal, beyond comparison, THE one and only.
By all means compare the wonderful Sprinter Sacre with Desert Orchid, Kauto Star and Master Minded, and try to guess whether he will be their equal. With Arkle? The evidence is a long way short.
Its impossible and simply just sentimental (or fear?) to state that SS will NEVER surpass Arkle.
We simply do not know yet, but he hasn’t shown anything to conclusively prove that he is certainly inferior
The 2-mile division at the moment is uncompetitive; SE probably past his best, Big Zeb and Master Minded retired, F Rainbow under a cloud. I think that is what is holding SS back. Compare it to the 3-mile division; Bobsworth, S Conti, Long Run, Tidal Bay, Sir des Champs, Firts Lieutenant, Flemenstar.
I agree he looks superb, but he needs a bigger challenge.The 2-mile division at the moment is uncompetitive; SE probably past his best, Big Zeb and Master Minded retired, F Rainbow under a cloud. I think that is what is holding SS back. Compare it to the 3-mile division; Bobsworth, S Conti, Long Run, Tidal Bay, Sir des Champs, Firts Lieutenant, Flemenstar.
I agree he looks superb, but he needs a bigger challenge.Yes. He has stablemates who are better than anything else that ran on Saturday
However – looking at him, i think the only time he will have trouble is in race with more runners and mishaps. He’s just too good a jumper and has too much of an engine to be caught out in races like those he’s been in this season.
standards rise in all sports, yet we’re supposed to believe these ratings attributed to arkle and flying bolt- ratings which put them way above brilliant jump horses of the last few years, like kauto star, denman, big bucks and sprinter sacre.
somehow I just do buy it.
Arkle’s course record at Sandown is a bit hard to swallow; carrying 12.7? Over what distance? Has the course been changed substantially since?
Still the greatest ever; imagine how he would have hoovered up all the WFA races.What was all the more remarkable about Arkle’s Gallaher performance – apart from the record time and weight concession – is the fact that he was making his seasonal debut. Mill House already had two warm up races and stable confidence behind him was high.
The trip was 3 miles, 118 yards. The ground was officially "good"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY1ypQ2ROOc
Still not convinced ?
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
The 2-mile division at the moment is uncompetitive; SE probably past his best, Big Zeb and Master Minded retired, F Rainbow under a cloud. I think that is what is holding SS back. Compare it to the 3-mile division; Bobsworth, S Conti, Long Run, Tidal Bay, Sir des Champs, Firts Lieutenant, Flemenstar.
I agree he looks superb, but he needs a bigger challenge.In the way that racing fans became restless when Frankel was competing at a mile, one gets the impression that the same might well happen to Sprinter Sacre if he stays at 2 miles for too long. There’s going to be a huge amount of pressure on Nicky Henderson over the next couple of years should SS stays fit and healthy.
There are several issues with the perceptions of Akrle.
Firstly, he ran during an era where it was simply easier to produce large ratings. Destroying high end competition in handicaps produces a bigger rating than at level weights, even though the added weight may or may not have contributed much to the result/distance.
Secondly, because he is unquestionably considered to be the best NH horse of all time, people tend to overstate the impossibility of seeing a better horse. There are basically no sports where the considered GOAT can be deemed an unattainable mantle for those in the future.
Thirdly, i find it most curious how Arkle has such seperation relative to his National Hunt competition, in contrast to the proximity of rankings within Flat racing. Now the best horse of all time is a somewhat fallicious and useless question, but within Flat racing, we have numerous rated horses all very close. Not so in Jump racing. Are we seriously supposed to believe Arkle is 30+ pounds better than Kauto Star? Or 45+ better than Sprinter Sacre? Such a large seperation is curious. Am i supposed to really believe that one horse over many years is so vastly superior to even other all time greats, nevermind regular annual "stars"?
I don’t think this thread was wise or required, given the inevitable reaction, however given the question has been posed, i think it’s likely Arkle and his abilities are overstated. I find it impossible to believe such seperation between #1 and #2 onwards can exist. Such a seperation does not exist in any other sport.
I find it impossible to believe such seperation between #1 and #2 onwards can exist. Such a seperation does not exist in any other sport.
As usual a really interesting read J17 and I agree with much of it but does that seperation really not exist in other sports?
How about cricket where Bradman’s 99.94 towers over the next best of 60.97?
How about golf where Nicklaus and Woods are well clear of anyone else in terms of majors?
Or tennis with Federer and Sampras?
I agree that is it perfectly pausible, indeed likely, that even Arkel will one day be usurped but I don’t think it follows that his rating was overstated. The form is there in black in white and nobody seems to want to "recalibrate" it to use an in vogue term!
He did actually beat those fantastic horses carrying all that weight. Either they all ran below form or he was as good as everyone says.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Name any other horse you wish, but I am certain they would not have troubled Arkle at all this day. He was at his supreme, superlative best – and he could have gone round again and won. That’s how good he was. When I hear all this nonsense of how Kauto Star, Denman or Desert Orchid would have shown him a clean pair of heels etc, I just laugh all the more louder.
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