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Interesting to see the left wing mindset here. They hate working class people, but reserve their particular contempt for working class people who want to better themselves. Because all the Labour Party and its supporters want to do is keep them poor and dependent on the State.
The State is the one thing the Left believes in more than anything else. It explains why the Labour Party and other left wing voices have so enthusiastically embraced Covid scaremongering and alarmism – because it has massively increased state power over the individual.
As long as the Left keeps up this sneering attitude (which it seems incapable of dropping), it is going to find it very difficult to govern again. More and more working class people have turned against them. Why should they feel any sense of loyalty towards a group of people who sneer at them and insult them and just want them to cash their benefit cheque and do as they are told?
The old “My father voted Labour and so did his father” crowd are dying out. Labour needs to change its attitude. It does not own these people’s votes. If it wants to govern again (and I doubt that sometimes), it needs to win lots more seats in England now that Scotland seems lost. But there is no sign that the party has learned anything, so convinced it is of its moral righteousness and that its opponents are not merely wrong but stupid and evil as well.
“Interesting to see the left wing mindset here. They hate working class people, but reserve their particular contempt for working class people who want to better themselves. Because all the Labour Party and its supporters want to do is keep them poor and dependent on the State.”
That’s exactly what those of us on the left “here” have been saying, is it?
Jesus wept.
“Most people actually vote against the Tories (over 56% last time) but thanks to our joke of a voting system they have an 80 seat majority.”
Did you object when the Labour Party under Mr Tony Blair as he was at the time got a majority of 179 with a similar share of the vote?
As for “Question Time”, Farage has appeared a lot. This is not surprising because he was the most prominent proponent of a point of view that had become very important. But almost every week the panel leans towards Left/Remain voices, sometimes 4 to 1. Or 5 to 1 if you include Fiona Bruce.
What is really needed is for new political parties which actually represent the people to emerge. Both Conservative and Labour no longer represent anyone but themselves.
No matter what side of the political spectrum you’re on, it’s always interesting to take this test:
https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz
There’s a basic version but if you take the extra questions you obviously get a more accurate result.
Mine were as follows:
84% Green
78% Labour
68% Lib Dem
41% ConservativeThis sounds about right, as I am generally progressive but as hardline as you can get on crime (I would bring back the death penalty) and do not believe in unlimited immigration (we don’t want seven billion people living in the UK).
“I can’t stand Farage but why dint people check facts before posting”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes
So on average per year Farage comes out on top in that group.
I have woken up to a tidal wave of interesting postings!
We all like to think ours is the objective view, not coloured by personal political creed or affiliation, but the reality is much is coloured by that and even extremists don’t think they are extreme – it’s the others who don’t agree with them that need that label in their eyes.
The ongoing BBC debate highlights this.
Conservatives think it’s full of lefty’s, Labour voters think it’s full of people like Andrew Marr and Laura K who give the government too easy a ride.
No one likes the BBC – and that’s as it should be, the reality is the BBC is neutral, often inept, but neutral.
Other than that I would like to pick up on two other points.
We live in a world where Conservatives have been in power 11 years yet many of them adopt the gaslighting stance they are in Opposition – they claim the country (which they run!) is being taken over by lefty, woke, cancel culture, snowflakes.
Never in my lifetime has a section of society wearing the oppressed underdog badge so passionately actually wielded so much power.
Secondly an IMO very good point here by a centre right chap about the Left.
The general idea behind being centre left and joining the Labour Party is being a decent person who wants a more equal society where the rich are less rich and the poor are less poor.
Yet so many in the Labour Party and the centre left media are God awful people.
And the key words are “patronising,” “condescending” and “controlling.”
This is typified by Owen “Join A Union” Jones.
That’s his Twitter handle.
Here is what looks like a teenager, who still bursts acne spots regularly, from the get-go TELLING others what to do.
Despite his naive youth, he’s so much smarter than everyone else, you see.
Except he isn’t.
He’s a bit of an idiot, tbh.
Unions are for people whose job skills are less than unique and who cannot command a large salary via the natural forces of supply and demand.
Nearly every successful well-paid person has never needed – hence never been in – a union.
And they weren’t all chinless public schoolboys who walked into City jobs.
Yes, the elite establishment exists – and that’s wrong and needs correcting – but you can do well in this life from any background if you’re intelligent, work hard and stand up for yourself in individual negotiation scenarios.
Labour is now full of nauseating middle class people who think they know what’s best for others when the reality is they often aren’t that bright themselves.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Here is what looks like a teenager, who still bursts acne spots regularly…”
Come on, Ian; you’re better than that. You should know never to judge people by how they look.
“Nearly every successful well-paid person has never needed – hence never been in – a union.”
I take it that doctors, lawyers, actors, footballers, etc aren’t deemed “successful” and “well-paid” then?
I apologise for actually saying what I actually think whenever I see the fella – I had forgotten such brutally honest – if gratuitous! – thoughts have to be kept to oneself nowadays.
I’m sure you get my drift – he’s basically a know-nothing kid trying to tell the world what to do.
I’ve never been in a union in my life and I was a journalist back in the day.
The NUJ was not for me – I didn’t want some tool calling himself “Father Of Chapel” who frankly was so lazy he’d rather spend his day on “Union business” (making a nuisance of himself with management) than actually doing his job, telling me when I should and shouldn’t go to work.
And I always managed just fine negotiating my salary level on my own.
If you can offer a skill set worth having, the market place will pay for it – it’s how the forces of supply and demand work.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Agree about Owen Jones. It does not reflect well on “The Guardian” when he is its star columnist.
Having said that, there are plenty of others in that parish who are just as bad. At least Larry Elliott is still there writing on economics and providing a much needed grown up voice at Guardian Towers (he wrote a fine article yesterday saying the government is right to resist any more restrictions, which will probably have gone down like a cup of cold sick with a lot of the lockdown enthusiast readership).
Although even Jones has been changing his tune a bit. He wrote an article just before Christmas suggesting we have to learn to live with Covid, whereas before he was at the forefront of the lock down hard and fast brigade.
I suspect his young readership and subscribers to his YouTube channel have told him they do not like their expensive education being disrupted. Also, the novelty of Covid restrictions has worn thin with them now. Do they really want much reduced life opportunities when compared with what their parents had? When looking at the students in my neighbourhood, most do not even bother with masks on the bus now.
Not quite. I did say earlier I doubt it will make much difference and it won’t. But petitions do not usually attract such a large amount of signatures and it has not finished yet.
Although I recognise it is possible to manipulate figures and they may not be all unique signatures. This is an age old problem with petitions. The Great Charter of the mid nineteenth century had many fabricated signatures, some more obvious than others.
I think the same would have been with the Barnoess for Thatcher and many other peerages had the internet been such a significant tool back in the day.
I’m sure if Boris is recommended in a few years time (unlikely) this would attract even more signatures.
‘Did you object when the Labour Party under Mr Tony Blair as he was at the time got a majority of 179 with a similar share of the vote?’
Yes, and I voted to change the system in the 2011 referendum. Never voted Labour or Conservative in my life. I fully agree with you when you say that we need new parties to emerge because the effective choice of two we have at the moment is truly awful.
As a Labour voting leftie can I just say that Owen Jones does not speak for me. I think he’s a complete nutter. As for the idea that Labour Party want to keep people poor, well, words fail me. We do, unlike the current government, want people to be well fed, well housed and well educated. Education, education,education. It’s as true now as it was when Tony Blair said it. It’s the basis of everything else. My daughter went into teaching during the Blair years and loved it. But gave up under this government because class sizes and lack of funding made the work untenable. She’s a great loss to the profession and I’m sure there are many more like her.
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