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The other severe problem with a PMU is a complete lack of any bricks n’ mortar in the UK, something that’s been touched on before on these boards – horseracing still represents 50% of all shop betting.
A further threat would be that bookmakers may no longer be able to bet on UK racing, but what about Irish racing? Punters who want their doubles, trebles & multis would still be able to do so. With all the extra Levy, how long before Irish racing was converted to many peoples’ dream situation of a couple of high-class meetings a day run for decent money?
In many ways, having a UK PMU would deliver exactly the sport that so many advocate – less racing, higher quality, more integrity – just not in the country they hoped for!!
Mike
At this point in the thread I think it’s time to float once again the oft-mooted (on TRF) idea of a ‘Tote Betting Exchange’ model run by and run for UK Racing
Eff-off Turf Accountant we don’t need you or your ‘levy’
It all seems so very simple; or are Exchanges too now going the way of the dodo
Be a great idea and as you say, it’s been discussed before on here. Meaningful competition for Betfair would be welcome. I’m actually surprised that nobody in the BHA has ever mooted the concept (or probably not that surprised, really).
Mike
As you say the win single is the most popular bet in the UK and surely there is no better bet for a PMU than a win single?
Then bet your singles on The Tote. You can do for every race, every day.
Mike
Unfortunately not practical in the UK with current set up and the parasites creaming off a lot of the money.
Certainly the Tote/Exchange route mentioned by Drone for the benefit of British racing is the brave and correct path to follow and preferable to just kowtowing to the parasites year after year.
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That’s why the fastest growing bets in the country are bets like the placepot and trifecta, where turnover has grown exponentially since the turn of the century….
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Any numbers on this exponential growth?
Plenty. This Monday in 2000 for example saw total placepot turnover of 63k.
http://www.racingpost.com/horses2/resul … 2000-12-04
Today’s figure will be three or four times that. If you pick any past years at random you’ll see turnover increasing circa 10% year-on-year in exponential fashion.
Trifecta turnover has grown at an even faster rate.
As you say the win single is the most popular bet in the UK and surely there is no better bet for a PMU than a win single?
Then bet your singles on The Tote. You can do for every race, every day.
Mike
Unfortunately not practical in the UK with current set up and the parasites creaming off a lot of the money.
As far as win singles are concerned, The Tote is broadly the same as PMU operations around the world.
Except the pools are weaker because nobody wants to bet singles on The Tote. Self-fulfilling really.
Mike
Oh dear I seem to have hijacked this thread …sorry everyone
I should have started a separate slagging match with Mike on the advocacy of PMU
Mike you are wrong , and I will take it up with you on another thread
apologies again
"betlarge":2p6mnufc wrote:
Unfortunately not practical in the UK with current set up and the parasites creaming off a lot of the money.
As far as win singles are concerned, The Tote is broadly the same as PMU operations around the world.
Except the pools are weaker because nobody wants to bet singles on The Tote. Self-fulfilling really.
Mike
betlarge,
Just how do you benefit from there being bookmakers? Do you show a profit from them? Do you beat the price with them?
If managing to do either or both the above how do manage to keep your accounts open?
You can’t really be as desperate as some and be prepared to accept £1.67, £1.21 or whatever the parasites at Power, Coral, Bet365 etc will allow just to keep your account open?
Or do you just like to look at the list of prices in Pricewise and pick one out at a price even if you can’t get it?
I’m afraid it’s just not regular winners who are unwelcome with the parasites these days and that can’t be good for racing.
Just how do you benefit from there being bookmakers? Do you show a profit from them? Do you beat the price with them?
I don’t bet with bookmakers but I believe people should have the choice to do so if they prefer.
You can’t really be as desperate as some and be prepared to accept £1.67, £1.21 or whatever the parasites at Power, Coral, Bet365 etc will allow just to keep your account open?
Or do you just like to look at the list of prices in Pricewise and pick one out at a price even if you can’t get it?
I’m afraid it’s just not regular winners who are unwelcome with the parasites these days and that can’t be good for racing.
I totally agree with all that, it’s deceptive and really poor practise in my view. As I stated earlier in this thread, I would like to see bookmakers committed to laying their quoted price up to a certain time for a certain stake, even if it was quite modest (E.g. up to 11am for £30).
The fact that they don’t do this makes their oft-quoted early prices a nonsense.
Mike
Just how do you benefit from there being bookmakers? Do you show a profit from them? Do you beat the price with them?
I don’t bet with bookmakers but I believe people should have the choice to do so if they prefer.
You can’t really be as desperate as some and be prepared to accept £1.67, £1.21 or whatever the parasites at Power, Coral, Bet365 etc will allow just to keep your account open?
Or do you just like to look at the list of prices in Pricewise and pick one out at a price even if you can’t get it?
I’m afraid it’s just not regular winners who are unwelcome with the parasites these days and that can’t be good for racing.
I totally agree with all that, it’s deceptive and really poor practise in my view. As I stated earlier in this thread, I would like to see bookmakers committed to laying their quoted price up to a certain time for a certain stake, even if it was quite modest (E.g. up to 11am for £30).
The fact that they don’t do this makes their oft-quoted early prices a nonsense.
Mike
The Racing Right is up for DCMS consultation soon. Maybe slim hope but why don’t we at least try to lobby for a Right to a Minimum Bet within it, similar to New South Wales.
The Racing Right is up for DCMS consultation soon. Maybe slim hope but why don’t we at least try to lobby for a Right to a Minimum Bet within it, similar to New South Wales.
I’m not sure of the workings of that, but it would be a good idea if it’s doable.
I think something that has compounded the problem is the Best Odds Guaranteed concession. I counterchecked this against 500 winners last year and found a 17% advantage compared with normal SP. Five hundred is not enough bets to regard that 17% as gospel but even so, it’s one hell of an advantage. I wouldn’t lay BOG to big stakes. No chance.
However, 99.9% of punters aren’t betting in hundreds and as I said earlier, I think it’s the fiver, tenner, score regular punters getting knocked back that really rankles. Why not just drop the BOG and lay your prices?
It seems the the average punter-in-the-street (whoever he is!) has been totally caught in a procedures net probably set up to defend layers from large amounts of warm money at BOG.
It needs to be sorted out. If you can’t lay an advertised price to modest amounts in a limited time frame, you’re not really a bookmaker are you?
Mike
Just how do you benefit from there being bookmakers? Do you show a profit from them? Do you beat the price with them?
I don’t bet with bookmakers but I believe people should have the choice to do so if they prefer.
Mike
It makes little difference whether you do, the same applies to others, what’s the point in having the choice if you’re not allowed to win? Or in more and more cases just bet with them?
And don’t think Betfair are any different, they used to welcome winners but that has long since gone, they want all the money for themselves now.
What racing needs is a Tote system where punters are just betting against other punters and the best man wins. There would be no refusal of bets, you could have as much as you want on and all the profits would go to racing.
This would hopefully lead to a lot less racing and a lot more prize money and quality of racing.
Apart from a tiny minority why any punter would prefer the current system with bookmakers is a mystery, it’s more or less admitting you are a loser.
Bookmakers just rip off punters and racing alike.Now they’ve got their FOBT’s they’ve got to protect that profit at all costs, the sooner they are banned the better, they should never have been allowed in the first place.
Well said Eddie , I agree with you word for word …they are indeed parasites …hopefully punters will walk away from betting under present conditions, then and only then will change take place
good post sir
I see the slimeball Clare was on RUK this morning whinging about having no knowledge of last Saturdays big gambles on Oriental Fox and Shared Equity or how they occurred. The parasite even called for a Racing Post investigation into it lol.
They don’t lay a bet but still want to be in the know and equation when a gamble takes place, what a bunch of hypocrites.
Tony Calvin who is a miles better than the hopeless Nevison, explained the gambles in less than 20 seconds lol.
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