Home › Forums › Horse Racing › Segal on Trainers and Prize-money
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kasparov.
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- December 15, 2014 at 20:45 #498599
Don’t know how many are in training, but you can look at the numbers of runners from some of the bigger yards and see that they are down on last year.
Biggest difference is Jonjo O’Neill (a yard I know is struggling with coughing) – the stable had 213 runners in Nov/Dec and only 83 so far this year, with very few entries for the coming weekend.
But Pipe, King, Twiston-Davies are all slightly down and I’d estimate overall about 150 – 200 fewer runners from those four yards than a year ago.
Obviously the other problem is two or three meetings every weekend since the beginning of November, all with programs designed to attract the 20% of horses at the top of the pyramid.
And whilst the lack of runners for the televised meetings is annoying for punters, the BHA should (imo) be far more worried about the small fields in everyday novice hurdles, because they tell us that base of the pyramid is crumbling.
December 15, 2014 at 21:45 #498604A look at the number of individual horses that ran in UK, chases, hurdles and bumpers by year, gives a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of National Hunt horses in training.
I’ve used January to November each year as of course December 2014 is still upon us.
2014 ……….8015
2013 ……….8391
2012 ……….8408
2011 ……….8983
2010 ……….8955
2009 ……….9488
2008 ……….9561December 15, 2014 at 22:38 #498615Trainer’s perspective from Twitter:
"A J Honeyball @AJHoneyball 2h2 hours ago
Page5 @RPWeekender Tom Segal comments about trainers absolute disgrace. Arrogant chippy blast which may be better aimed at BHA race planning"
No great surprise there. My own experience as a former owner leans more towards Mr Segal’s view, and indeed the majority on this thread. Always seemed to me that, unless you were a big owner with a sizeable string, trainers viewed your opinion as worth slightly less than the milkman or the bloke who delivered the feed. Didn’t matter that the small owner paid the same daily rate as the bigger ones.
Final straw for me was when my then trainer chose to spend a day swanning about at Royal Ascot rather than run my moderate novice chaser in an even more moderate race at Stratford. Nothing to do with prize money on that occasion, but nonetheless an opportunity to win a race missed – the beast that won it had finished 6 lengths behind us at Taunton the month before and we would have been 5 pounds better in as well. No guarantee, obviously, but enough to make me want to spend my hard-earned on something else.
December 15, 2014 at 23:17 #498616Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?
December 16, 2014 at 11:02 #498652A look at the number of individual horses that ran in UK, chases, hurdles and bumpers by year, gives a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of National Hunt horses in training.
I’ve used January to November each year as of course December 2014 is still upon us.
2014 ……….8015
2013 ……….8391
2012 ……….8408
2011 ……….8983
2010 ……….8955
2009 ……….9488
2008 ……….9561Interesting stuff Cav, and that looks like a major factor then – the effect of the recession I would guess.
I’ve never bought in to the "too much racing" argument in terms of jump racing as I’ve always believed that due to market forces the number of races will rise and fall as appropriate. However, there seems to be so much latency in those figures it doesn’t look terribly reactive in this case!
Mike
December 16, 2014 at 13:36 #498669Why on earth is there THREE graduation chases this week?
December 16, 2014 at 14:13 #498670I suppose the argument for programming these three graduation chases in rapid-fire succession is that they’re each taking place over distinctly different distances (2m1.5f, 2m5.5f, 3m), and that for the type of races they are a big-sized field would never really be expected.
Either way, the three of them each attracted only four runners apiece when they all took place last year, and 14 between them (a six and two fours) in 2011 on the previous occasion they’d all beaten the weather. On both of those occasions, the races were equally closely scheduled in the calendar.
Often fascinating events, but you mightn’t want a fixture list full of too many more of them.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
December 16, 2014 at 20:11 #498696Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?
Hi PC, probably not appropriate/relevant to name and shame on a public forum really. Said trainer did come up with various excuses at the time for not running and it was only when I saw stuff on social media re the swanning about at Ascot that the penny really dropped, but it’s not an allegation I could substantiate with 100% certainty, although it was an obvious enough conclusion to draw. The main reasons given were trip and ground, which was clearly cobblers as we’d finished 2nd at Fontwell over the same trip and going 2-3 months previously.
It was really just to emphasise that owners, in my experience anyway, don’t get enough say and whilst of course the trainer has the expertise and knowledge (for which he/she is well paid)the poor sod coughing up all the cash ought to at least have a bit of influence over when/where the horse runs once in a while. Or is that really a bit too Utopian?
December 17, 2014 at 22:34 #498790For graphs of field sizes see
December 17, 2014 at 22:37 #498791Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?
It was really just to emphasise that owners, in my experience anyway, don’t get enough say and whilst of course the trainer has the expertise and knowledge (for which he/she is well paid)the poor sod coughing up all the cash ought to at least have a bit of influence over when/where the horse runs once in a while. Or is that really a bit too Utopian?
Surely there is a gap in the market for a trainer who listens to owners?Can it be that difficult?
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