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Segal on Trainers and Prize-money

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  • #498599
    apracing
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    • Total Posts 4011

    Don’t know how many are in training, but you can look at the numbers of runners from some of the bigger yards and see that they are down on last year.

    Biggest difference is Jonjo O’Neill (a yard I know is struggling with coughing) – the stable had 213 runners in Nov/Dec and only 83 so far this year, with very few entries for the coming weekend.

    But Pipe, King, Twiston-Davies are all slightly down and I’d estimate overall about 150 – 200 fewer runners from those four yards than a year ago.

    Obviously the other problem is two or three meetings every weekend since the beginning of November, all with programs designed to attract the 20% of horses at the top of the pyramid.

    And whilst the lack of runners for the televised meetings is annoying for punters, the BHA should (imo) be far more worried about the small fields in everyday novice hurdles, because they tell us that base of the pyramid is crumbling.

    #498604
    Avatar photoCav
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    • Total Posts 4833

    A look at the number of individual horses that ran in UK, chases, hurdles and bumpers by year, gives a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of National Hunt horses in training.

    I’ve used January to November each year as of course December 2014 is still upon us.

    2014 ……….8015
    2013 ……….8391
    2012 ……….8408
    2011 ……….8983
    2010 ……….8955
    2009 ……….9488
    2008 ……….9561

    #498615
    Avatar photoalf
    Participant
    • Total Posts 19

    Trainer’s perspective from Twitter:

    "A J Honeyball ‏@AJHoneyball 2h2 hours ago

    Page5 @RPWeekender Tom Segal comments about trainers absolute disgrace. Arrogant chippy blast which may be better aimed at BHA race planning"

    No great surprise there. My own experience as a former owner leans more towards Mr Segal’s view, and indeed the majority on this thread. Always seemed to me that, unless you were a big owner with a sizeable string, trainers viewed your opinion as worth slightly less than the milkman or the bloke who delivered the feed. Didn’t matter that the small owner paid the same daily rate as the bigger ones.

    Final straw for me was when my then trainer chose to spend a day swanning about at Royal Ascot rather than run my moderate novice chaser in an even more moderate race at Stratford. Nothing to do with prize money on that occasion, but nonetheless an opportunity to win a race missed – the beast that won it had finished 6 lengths behind us at Taunton the month before and we would have been 5 pounds better in as well. No guarantee, obviously, but enough to make me want to spend my hard-earned on something else.

    #498616
    Peruvian Chief
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    • Total Posts 1931

    Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?

    #498652
    Avatar photobetlarge
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    • Total Posts 2808

    A look at the number of individual horses that ran in UK, chases, hurdles and bumpers by year, gives a reasonably accurate estimate of the number of National Hunt horses in training.

    I’ve used January to November each year as of course December 2014 is still upon us.

    2014 ……….8015
    2013 ……….8391
    2012 ……….8408
    2011 ……….8983
    2010 ……….8955
    2009 ……….9488
    2008 ……….9561

    Interesting stuff Cav, and that looks like a major factor then – the effect of the recession I would guess.

    I’ve never bought in to the "too much racing" argument in terms of jump racing as I’ve always believed that due to market forces the number of races will rise and fall as appropriate. However, there seems to be so much latency in those figures it doesn’t look terribly reactive in this case!

    Mike

    #498669
    runandskip
    Member
    • Total Posts 412

    Why on earth is there THREE graduation chases this week?

    #498670
    Avatar photograysonscolumn
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    • Total Posts 7038

    I suppose the argument for programming these three graduation chases in rapid-fire succession is that they’re each taking place over distinctly different distances (2m1.5f, 2m5.5f, 3m), and that for the type of races they are a big-sized field would never really be expected.

    Either way, the three of them each attracted only four runners apiece when they all took place last year, and 14 between them (a six and two fours) in 2011 on the previous occasion they’d all beaten the weather. On both of those occasions, the races were equally closely scheduled in the calendar.

    Often fascinating events, but you mightn’t want a fixture list full of too many more of them.

    gc

    Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.

    #498696
    Avatar photoalf
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    • Total Posts 19

    Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?

    Hi PC, probably not appropriate/relevant to name and shame on a public forum really. Said trainer did come up with various excuses at the time for not running and it was only when I saw stuff on social media re the swanning about at Ascot that the penny really dropped, but it’s not an allegation I could substantiate with 100% certainty, although it was an obvious enough conclusion to draw. The main reasons given were trip and ground, which was clearly cobblers as we’d finished 2nd at Fontwell over the same trip and going 2-3 months previously.

    It was really just to emphasise that owners, in my experience anyway, don’t get enough say and whilst of course the trainer has the expertise and knowledge (for which he/she is well paid)the poor sod coughing up all the cash ought to at least have a bit of influence over when/where the horse runs once in a while. Or is that really a bit too Utopian?

    #498790
    Avatar photokasparov
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    • Total Posts 660
    #498791
    Avatar photokasparov
    Member
    • Total Posts 660

    Are you willing to name the trainer Alf?

    It was really just to emphasise that owners, in my experience anyway, don’t get enough say and whilst of course the trainer has the expertise and knowledge (for which he/she is well paid)the poor sod coughing up all the cash ought to at least have a bit of influence over when/where the horse runs once in a while. Or is that really a bit too Utopian?

    Surely there is a gap in the market for a trainer who listens to owners?Can it be that difficult?

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