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I will never do the bet in it’s current format as I think to have any chance at all you have to do at least two horses in each race. £128 for that perm is way out of my reach and I’m sure lots of other people, £12.80 however I would have a go every week.
A friend of mine a few years ago did get the places up and was pleased to receive the princely sum of £92, until I pointed out to him that a £1 each way accumulator would have paid nearly twice that!I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysThanks Venusian and Racing Daily. Some at the top of the Tote couldn’t accept it for what it was and wanted their own ‘stamp’ on it – they had a basic misunderstanding of where the biggest market lay despite years of Placepot evidence.
Very frustrating for me over the years as you can imagine!
Joe
- Total Posts 17716
Why the shock about it not being fair? Nothing is fair in this game.
The scoop6 is another racket. What a surprise.Why the shock about it not being fair? Nothing is fair in this game.
The scoop6 is another racket. What a surprise.And yet most of those "ordinary people " who don’t bet or call racing a mugs game does the Grand National and probably the Derby every year. Plus a lotto either once or twice a week.
Why the shock about it not being fair? Nothing is fair in this game.
The scoop6 is another racket. What a surprise.And yet most of those "ordinary people " who don’t bet or call racing a mugs game does the Grand National and probably the Derby every year. Plus a lotto either once or twice a week.
It doesn’t have to be a mugs game RR
The trick is to separate the ‘wheat bets’ from the ‘chaff bets’.
That is the difference between a Lucky 63 and the 22 bet perm I stated earlier. Who wants the singles? For that matter, who wants the doubles? It’s just too many bets that pay out peanuts if they come up, and you are limiting your options on getting the big win. You could just pull out the four timers alone and bring it down to 15 bets, but then you can have the option of having two selections in two of the more difficult races or maybe putting in two banker races to get you half of the way to that 4-timer.
The Grand National isn’t a lottery, it’s usually an 8 horse race with 32 also rans. I don’t know why ppl bother with the lottery tbh, it’s a waste of money. But the lottery is proof that ppl will gladly play for a big win if there is a saver built in to recoup your stake. Not that you do, but the impression is given that you can with the £10 win for 3 numbers.Hi RD.
I wasn’t saying that the Grand National is a lottery in fact in most years the winner will be 16/1 or less or from the first eight in the betting.
However most once a year punter say to me "It’s anybodys race".
I was answering Plenipotentiary whose last post I slightly misread because I was looking at his/her message on my phone and his/her bit at the bottom seemed to form part of his/her actual message that he/she typed in.
To Plenipotentiary I’m sorry about getting your gender wrong, I was going to assume you were a man but this assumption might be wrong.
In my opinion the best bet is the SINGLE, how many bookmakers don’t advertise them, but like many who want big money from tiny stakes a lot go for bets like Yankees and Lucky 15s.
I was chatting about the Scoop6 with somebody from the Tote last Saturday and we discussed some of the points raised above.
In terms of "big winners" of the bet there is roughly a 55/45 split of small punters and syndicates, which holds up quite well.
The £2 a line stake is a deliberate ploy, partly as has already been suggested to deter syndicates and partly to make roll-overs to big pools more likely. The though process being if smaller stakes were allowed then there would be more perms entered and the win pool would be won most weeks, reducing the probability of more attractive rollovers.
Does anybody know how successful the bet is? If it does not make money I assume slaphead will abandon it.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysPurwell, the bet makes money for the Tote as they automatically deduct from every pool before declaring a divi. The original takeout (deduction) on scoop6 was 30% – it might have dropped to 29% by now, I can’t recall.
Their problem is that via Tote Direct – an agency system which allows the bet to be taken in Ladbrokes, Hills etc, means a huge % of that deduction goes back out to the agent – that used to be 20%.
The Australian Tote – TAB – paid its agents around 2% on all transactions back in the 90s (when I was working for the Tote) and I don’t think that’s changed much.
It’s an awful business structure for the Tote/Tote Direct – the deduction is far too big and the agency commission a killer.
Thanks for that I did wonder if the bet was as popular as it used to be as I don’t know anyone who does it now.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highways- Total Posts 17716
And yet most of those "ordinary people " who don’t bet or call racing a mugs game does the Grand National and probably the Derby every year. Plus a lotto either once or twice a week.
As I said in another thread when your point was made by someone else: What is really illuminating is that people PREFER to play a hopeless nonsense like the lottery to betting on animals running across a field in a system that is in some ways a kind of gigantic yet utterly humourless farce. That in itself is revealing.
I don’t play the lottery but I think it’s probably less depressing than playing the horses. In their hearts lottery punters must know they are not going to win; the great depressing fact of horseplaying, however, is that occasionally when you’re doing well for a couple of minutes you feel the big one is really round the corner when of course it is not, except if you are one of the big boys.It’s strange you don’t see tote bets promoted in bookmakers shops or online when the commission is so attractive to them. Also you would expect rakeback offers to be more frequent. Betfair occasionally gives 10% back but I haven’t seen anyone else do it.
In fact one could set up a business whose sole activity was an online tote terminal that shared commission with punters.
Kasparov,
I’ve used BlueSq for Tote pool bets during the big festivals and they usually offer either 5% or 10% cashback. It was definitely 10% on Placepots during the Cheltenham Festival.
In the USA, there are specialised online sites (known as discounters) that offer increased payouts on Tote bets at US tracks, by returning part of the commission they get from the courses to their customers, and they are still able to make a profit.
It is surprising that nobody has tried this (Afaik) in this country – I have wondered whether you could reach a private deal with a bookmaker like Bluesq to get a discount in exchange for a guarantee of a certain amount of turnover per month. E.g. Will you give a 5% cashback on all placepot bets if I guarantee you at least £2000 of bets in a month. If my understanding of the commission rate is correct, they’d still earn £200 minimum from that deal.
AP
In fact one could set up a business whose sole activity was an online tote terminal that shared commission with punters.
To my knowledge, all the big syndicates have a comm sharing agreement with a small bookmaker.
At one point Blue Square offered 15% cashback – I believe the Tote outlawed that.
Incidentally, I have been investigating the Irish tote lately.
This occasionally throws up some good deals. Today we have the Sligo jackpot rollover of nearly euro 100000. And you only have to pick 4 winners and the tote deduction is only 25%. So it’s likely to be a positive expectation bet today even without rakeback, but if anyone spots any rakeback deals perhaps they could point them out.Can you imagine if you won the lottery prize of £2m by selecting the six winning numbers, and Camelot gave you your £400k prize and said, "if you want the other £1.6m, you will need to correctly select next week’s first number drawn"?
This is not far feached.
I lived with a woman who I would catergorise as a "Gambler".
I will back horses in top quality races and I will look at various factors such as breeding, achievent to date etc. My "investment" is based on various factors. I will not wreak my financial security.
My ex partner would quite happily play internet bingo on the Sun site. So I watched sometimes and saw that she could quite easily pay in £60 in an hour without thinking that could she afford to do so.
"Random numbers" thats what I think of it as. In the end I had to bail her out with her bank. When we split up and sold the house she gave me all the money back that I had bailed her out with.
Occasionally she would win maybe around £600 to £1000 but within 2 to 3 days it would all be gone because there was always a huge "bonus win" to go for. Thats how they get you. "Bonus win" my arse.
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