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He didn’t exactly have a willing partner there TAPK.
I backed him at 20/1 for the 87 2000gns after he won the Acomb at York Coggy,Eddery came late and fast in the 2000gns,he gave the horse a few back handers that would have seen him banned these days but it was all too late to catch "Dont forget me"! Bellotto then ran in the Derby and again finished from a long way back to finish a creditable 3rd to Reference Point,again he was hard ridden and Bellotto responded to all of his jockeys urgings! Unfotunately both of these hard races took their toll on Bellotto and he failed to live up to his 2 classic placings even after a lengthy rest he folded tamely in the September stakes when an odds on fav! He was a willing horse who was broken by a jockey who was far too hard on him because he gave the horse far too much to do in both classics! Poor show!
I didn’t see Sariska’s antics today but if she was mine I might give her one more chance in the Arc.
Sorry TAPK
Still disagree mate
He was, imho, a horse who was a bit dodgy to say the least.
He simply wasn’t beaten by having 2 hard rides from Eddery. I think that the reason he was beaten in all 3 was that he was an animal, that flattered to deceive, as many others do.
If its any consolation , I bet him in the Derby, albeit to small stakes, as I already had suspicions
Quite happy to continue the debate between the 2 of us, but still would like to hear other views about Sariska.
You still cannot take Edderys achievements away from him, as all jockeys make mistakes, even the great ones.
I have never heard Bellotto quoted as being one of them though.i personally would of kept her in training. tried a different jockey and seen how the ground turned up in october.
Of course if "Head" Turner rode Sariska she might have kept the filly happy for longer. But equally, Sariska might have discovered the family trait earlier, in the Musidora instead of Yorkshire Oaks. Who knows? It’s just speculation and impossible to say. Just because H is a girl does not mean she’d have a better knack with the big woman.
Again, can’t see running her in the Fred Darling did any damage. We also don’t know quite how the filly behaved throughout her career, it’s possible Bell did exceptionally well keeping her mindset right for as long as he did.
Prefer to give Bell and Spencer credit.
Value Is Everything
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This wasn’t just about her not coming out of the stalls. As I said in my post before she did it first time is she has been dogging it for ages even when she beat Midday first time out she looked reluctant in the closing stages.
Michael Bell did the right thing as if she had raced she most likely would have been further exposed as less good than she led many of us(including myself at one time) believed.
Before this race Michael Bell was already making excuses for her (like all trainers do when they think they could get beat) saying he wished the ground was softer.
Her main claim to fame is to have won the Irish Oak in terrble ground nothing else could go in. Plus the fact she was so well in herslef that day the yard were betting how far she would win by. The combination of both made her look like a superstar but how manytimes have we seen that?
I hear her her half sister also refused to come ot of the stalls last week seems like it’s an attitde problem that runs in the family.
No doubt a lot of punters who lost there wad on her will be glad to see her go and could suggest a different fate than having babies.
Think I’m right in saying because one of her refusals was in France it wouldn’t be held against her here which is a rule that should be changed IMO
Any horse who costs the punter money like that not once but twice should be banned from racing until such times they prove in a test they no longer poccess the habit.
No sympathy from me I’m afraid. Can’t be having horses costing punters millions and allowing them to race/not.
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You got me thinking with your points about Mr Bell, and it brought back memories of a filly of Mr Cecils from the late 80s, namely Indian Skimmer. Once it was found that she was a different animal with cut in the ground, Mr Cecil showed immense patience ensuring that she was given as many favourable chances on appropriate ground as possible.
Perhaps Mr Bell could have done the same.I well remember that lovely filly Indian Skimmer. I also remember that Henry Cecil was regularly accused of "wrapping her in cotton wool", especially when she lost one of her rare outings – which goes to show how hard it is for trainers to do right for doing wrong.
I rather suppose Mr Bell might be praised for at least trying to run his top-class filly on a variety of grounds and distances. As with other members of her family, it hasn’t worked out as she’s got older and wiser, and hindsight is a wonderful thing; but I don’t think Mr Bell should be blamed for her failure of temperament. He can’t help not being Henry Cecil, whose way with fillies is quite extraordinary.
No sympathy from me I’m afraid. Can’t be having horses costing punters millions and allowing them to race/not.
Surely the horse and trainer can manage without your sympathy.
A horse costing punters money comes in various occasions and correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that what ante-post is all about? You can have a horse being pulled out for no reason or relocated to a different race and still you don’t hear punters demanding to hang the trainer and turn the horse into dog food.
A horse’s refusal to race is a serious business. Can’t blame Bell for trying to give it one more go.- Total Posts 17716
Wasn’t really talking about Michael Bell he’s a lovely fella but to take it a step further.
I was talking about Sariska who’s turned out to be a complete "cow" When fillies do that you cut your losses as they’re twice as stubborm as their male counterparts. If they are useless you get rid of them if they are like Sariska, classy, you pack them of to stud without hesitation.
Michael Bell’s decision had nothing to do with saving the punters money. That’s the job of the BHA and why they have rules to stop horses like Sariska running….as far as connections are concerned it’s all down to keeping her shed value as high as possible, which anyone in the right mind would have done.
Can’t blame them at all.
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He didn’t exactly have a willing partner there TAPK.
I backed him at 20/1 for the 87 2000gns after he won the Acomb at York Coggy,Eddery came late and fast in the 2000gns,he gave the horse a few back handers that would have seen him banned these days but it was all too late to catch "Dont forget me"! Bellotto then ran in the Derby and again finished from a long way back to finish a creditable 3rd to Reference Point,again he was hard ridden and Bellotto responded to all of his jockeys urgings! Unfotunately both of these hard races took their toll on Bellotto and he failed to live up to his 2 classic placings even after a lengthy rest he folded tamely in the September stakes when an odds on fav! He was a willing horse who was broken by a jockey who was far too hard on him because he gave the horse far too much to do in both classics! Poor show!
Going by memory I’d say you are way off the mark! Bellotto was a hold up horse and when they did try and ride him handy in the King George in the same year he finished miles behind Mtoto,Reference Point and some French filly. No doubt Pat could give them some stick but horses aren’t that soft and couple of hard races at the right time does them no harm. Ask AP McCoy.
Pat Eddery has ridden some brilliant horses and had to be very forcefull at times but I’ve never heard anyone say he was so hard he ruined them.
My bet is you lost your school dinner money and have never forgiven him
I agree totally Fist. Eddery was as strong as anyone in a finish, but to suggest that he ruined horses, is in my opinion, well wide of the mark
Any horse who costs the punter money like that not once but twice should be banned from racing until such times they prove in a test they no longer poccess the habit.
No sympathy from me I’m afraid. Can’t be having horses costing punters millions and allowing them to race/not.
It’s Fists the punters pal !
So, we can’t have horses costing punters money but we should welcome back "one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet" previously warned off "legend" who in his time I would suggest has cost punters plenty.
You’re not involved with the BHA in any way are you ?
I believe the point is that people may change but after many tries the horse did not.
Hi Pinza
I agree with you wholeheartedly that Mr Cecil has a way of getting the best out of fillies that is second to none
As a broodmare Sariska will be frowned upon i would think wouldnt she?. Stick her in a nice novice hurdle to begin with in November (would get her ground too) and see her take 3 or 4 Champion Hurdles!!……..Now that would be interesting!!
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I agree with you wholeheartedly that Mr Cecil has a way of getting the best out of fillies that is second to none
A tiny incident I’ve never forgotten. It was in the paddock before the Brigadier Gerard Stakes, Bosra Sham’s first race since beating Halling in the Champion the previous autumn.
She was fresh and on her toes, almost threatening to boil over. Cecil motioned her lass to bring the filly onto the grass and went over to her. All he did was brush back two strands of mane from her eyes, put his hand on her forehead and whisper a couple of words into her shell-like. In a couple of seconds she was calm as a glacier – and as she headed back to the perimeter I could
swear
Bosra Sham
smiled
at him!
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