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Why does it need 2 winning posts when every other course (in the world) just needs the one?
Why does everyone go on about the railway fences when no one ever falls at them. In fact no one ever seems to fall on the chase track – champagne west very much the exception. Are they the softest fences (in theworld ?)
I’ve never been to Sandown but presumably the Railway Fences are quite close together and if you miss the first one, chances are you’ll make a mistake at the next as well, and so on, potentially costing a horse lengths if they don’t meet the first one right. Similar to the last two fences in Galway I suspect, although I’d imagine not as close together as those two.
Why does it need 2 winning posts when every other course (in the world) just needs the one?
Longchamp?
Sandown’s chase course is on a completely different track in the home straight. Therefore the winning line for the chase course is at a different angle across the course to the hurdle one.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
And the winner of the biggest wind up post of 2015 is……
The reason for the two winning posts is simply because the chase and hurdle home straights are completely separate and arrive at the finish at different angles so have to have different finishes. Look at the angle of the winning lines and you will see what I mean.
As for the railway fences I have seen plenty of fallers there but these fences can change the outcome of a race as horses that make a mistake at the first of the three will often make mistakes at the other two.
Add the line of fences down the back straight with the race changing uphill finish and For me Sandown is up there with Cheltenham as the best racecourse in Britain.
And the winner of the biggest wind up post of 2015 is……
Why a wind up? redremi makes perfectly valid points, the negatives of having 2 winning posts far outweigh the positives for me.
Even after all these years even the cameraman’s not sure and covers both just to be sure and so do some jockeys.Not ideal for viewers as well especially if you can’t see the post on the nearside, which happens.
Can’t see why the angle of last fence/hurdle has to be the deciding factor, just have a straight line across the track at the winning post. If the winning posts are at different angles does that mean you will get to the winning post on one side of the track before the other?
I seem to remember Darryl Holland mistaking the winning post once there (Compton Admiral?) on the flat, not sure what that entailed.
As for the fences there’s no doubt they are significantly softer and don’t require the jumping ability they once did. I had to laugh at pundits stating "Sandown takes a bit of jumping" and "He will have to improve his jumping at somewhere like Sandown" at 2 recent meetings. It’s just not true any more.
I’ve seen many a horse the last 2 or 3 seasons just go through the fences with little loss of impetus, some really deserved to fall but racecourses just don’t want fallers any more and Sandown are not alone.
No wind up
So which winning post do they use for the bumpers?
Do they create a third one?
Yes I accept longchamp is confusing too
Watching horses jumping the seven fences down the back through binoculars at sandown is one of the pleasures of national hunt racing and I can highly recommend it.
My one gripe with sandown is that they chuck so much water on the flat course in the summer nowadays and leads to bottomless ground for the hurdles races in the winter,more so than years ago it seems and yes the fences are softer as they are everywhere now and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not?I agree a great spectacle down the back straight. Super viewing course.
Always interesting to watch the planes land and leave at Heathrow in the distance. Amazing to watch them.Chris Dixon prior to the 3 runner beginners chase at Sandown today stated “These fences here are unforgiving”. What are these people basing this myth on? Do they not watch the horses jumping the fences at Sandown regularly?
They used to be stiff 20 or 30 years ago like lots of tracks but are no longer, no better example than the 3 runner chase that followed his comments, surprised Jonathan Neesom didn’t put him right.
Just came back from Sandown today and I can attest that the fences still take a lot of jumping (the very top part of the fences may have a fraction more give in them than in previous years as you can just about brush through them) but repeated mistakes today cost Golden Doyen and Sirabad (who tried to Desert Orchid the first two down the back which almost had him on the deck and drew huge gasps from the crowd) with both Southfield Theatre and Roalco Des Farges not impressing either.
Sandown to me presents it fences very well and does test jumping ability but not generally to the point where one mistake puts you on the floor – for me the most difficult fence on the course is the downhill fence away from the stands because if the jockey doesn’t get a hold they can arrive at it too quickly to get the landing gear down. The old addage to the railway fences of ‘if you met the first one on a good stride you will meet them all on a good stride’ more often than not proves to be true – again Golden Doyen proved that today as he wasn’t particularly fluent at any of them.
I think also that you very rarely see poor jumpers actually even running at Sandown because trainers know it is a stern jumping test and so generally only take their best jumpers to the track.
I think also that you very rarely see poor jumpers actually even running at Sandown because trainers know it is a stern jumping test……
There are certainly courses whose fences have less give in them than others, but the difference is minimal and no course can legitimately claim to be a stern jumping test any more. Even Cheltenham has clearly been directed to ease the density of the packed birch in their fences.
....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
Aintree’s Mildmay track in the mid ’90s was savage. A man could safely have walked across the top of a fence, from one end to the other, without his shoes going in an inch.
I think all tracks have softened their fences.
I saw the most brilliant display of jumping at Sandown – best by far I’ve seen live – by Mr Frisk when he won the 1990 Whitbread. I love the track.
A pic of Coneygree today shows how superbly Sandown fences are built – very inviting…
The most disappointing aspect of today’s racing was the usual glut of non-runners, I can’t believe how they can use the excuse that the ground was too soft the majority of national hunt racing is on soft ground and today’s ground didn’t look anything out of the ordinary especially on the jumps course.
I’d love to know what excuse the connections of Puffin Billy gave today, why not just admit they were scared of going up against Coneygree?
I think “savage” is a not a description I would use, but they were certainly less forgiving.
Fences used to be made to be jumped and demanded respect, the theory being that the horse who could put in the best jumping performance would, in the majority of races, prevail. This is surely one of the principal reasons the sport was conceived.
The fences today, in my view, are too soft. The top 15cm should have enough give in them to let a horse brush through the top, but not so soft that horses can plough through the top half of the fence without penalty.
The BHA seem to be falling over themselves
to reduce the number of fallers. Safety must be a priority, no one would argue with that, but we are in danger of destroying the essence of the sport. ....and you've got to look a long way back for anything else.
Puffin Billy apparently had a vets cert as he was lame this morning.
The ground at Sandown today was pretty soft as when I walked back across the course to get the train home although your feet didn’t get wet on the thick lush grass you could clearly see how deep the horses hoofs had gone into the ground and it did catch a lot of horses out.
Coneygree and Ar Mad apart, the rest of the races resulted in slow motion finishes and it wasn’t as if they all went off at any kind of mad gallop early on either.
I think “savage” is a not a description I would use, but they were certainly less forgiving.
Fences used to be made to be jumped and demanded respect, the theory being that the horse who could put in the best jumping performance would, in the majority of races, prevail. This is surely one of the principal reasons the sport was conceived.
The fences today, in my view, are too soft. The top 15cm should have enough give in them to let a horse brush through the top, but not so soft that horses can plough through the top half of the fence without penalty.
The BHA seem to be falling over themselves
to reduce the number of fallers. Safety must be a priority, no one would argue with that, but we are in danger of destroying the essence of the sport. Good post
Spot on Television pundits take note.
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