- This topic has 84 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
I shall be very surprised if Thornton’s ride in the Welsh Grand National does not get ride of the year – a real step in the right direction ATR. It is alright blaming the general public but the ride should never have been put up for consideration in the first place. As far as I am aware there is nobody at ATR brave enough to take an anti-stance – presumably they all feel they will be alienated by the racing community if they did. Thornton if he had anything about him should have publicly stated that the ride had no place in the competition.
Sean Boyce did actually come onto TRF and express a degree of disquiet in the nomination of that race for any award, didn’t he?
https://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=130750#130750
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I think the idea a horse hit 20 times is going to run faster than a horse hit 10 times is wrong. It might in the jockey and trainers mind, but is it true?
Often a horse gets unbalanced or wavers off a true line.
Unless a horse is very lazy (Refinement, Nenuphar Collonges) hitting a horse more than 10 times does no good what so ever, usually quite the opposite.Why does’t the HRA (or whoever) counter the "Animal Aid" propaganda by using the "International League For The Protection Of Horses" views, that racehorses are the best cared for equines in the world?
One thing,
When there is an equine fatallity at the races, I’d like to see people collecting for racehorse rehabilitation centres, e.g. Greatwood or Moorcroft. At the gates, as the public leave. There should be more places where ex-racehorses can be re-trained, and I do not believe us punters give enough back to the animals concerned.Back to the subject,
As said earlier. Why can’t the prize money be witheld from all connections if its jockey transgresses the rules? Then owner and trainer would make sure the jockey keeps to the rules.Ginge
Value Is EverythingWhy does’t the HRA (or whoever) counter the "Animal Aid" propaganda by using the "International League For The Protection Of Horses" views, that racehorses are the best cared for equines in the world?
Maybe the HRA’s default reaction is to regard any such propaganda as the product of green biro-wielding nutters rather than to try to engage with that propaganda’s creators to any great extent. I’m not sure such an attitude of "oh, they don’t / wouldn’t understand" is especially helpful.
The Greatwood / Moorcroft collection buckets is far from the worst idea you’ve had, although I think I’d sooner they were deployed at all meetings rather than just those at which fatalities occur – it risks accusations of "ad hoc compassion" otherwise.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Not giving an opinion one way or the other, however a question for those advocating disqualification.
I presume if you had a major bet on a horse that was disqualified due to whip misuse, then you would not be posting on the forum complaining about such an "unfair" rule?
Not giving an opinion one way or the other, however a question for those advocating disqualification.
I presume if you had a major bet on a horse that was disqualified due to whip misuse, then you would not be posting on the forum complaining about such an "unfair" rule?
Thats beside the point though isn’t it? You’d lose your money thats all there is to it.
Works the other way you could collect after finishing third or forth.
I’m sure I could make a Mark Oaten gag there but I shall restrain myself.
I’m sure that’s not the fist time "Oaten", "gag" and "restrain" have appeared in the same sentence, either.
gc
And I’m sure that’s not the first time "fist", "Oaten", "gag" and "restrain" have appeared in the same sentence.
And I’m sure that’s not the first time "fist", "Oaten", "gag" and "restrain" have appeared in the same sentence.
If you type those four words into Google, you get 365 sites returned.
Sean Boyce did actually come onto TRF and express a degree of disquiet in the nomination of that race for any award, didn’t he?
https://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=130750#130750
gc
I have never heard him express the view on air though. Whatever view he has said it obviously didn’t have any impact. At a time when people are trying to address this issue it seems assorted boneheads at ATR think it would be a good idea to reward one of the worse cases of whip abuse this season.
And I’m sure that’s not the first time "fist", "Oaten", "gag" and "restrain" have appeared in the same sentence.
Oh gosh, I typed "fist" instead of "first", didn’t I!
Is that the world’s first ever example of a Freudian slip by proxy?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Are some of you really saying you were appalled at the standard of jockeyship (misuse of whip etc) at the festival? So, one or two got it wrong, it happens nearly every day of the week and jockeys get suspended, that’s all the offences are worth I’m afraid. These lads put their life and limb on the line for our entertainment every day of the week. Repeat offenders get further days under the totting up procedure as happened with Spencer last season.
King says the stewards are ruining the game but some of the suggestions on here are far worse and would ruin it even more. The appeals procedure would rule out any same day or next day ban, in fact I don’t think stewards on the day between races should be deciding these things, they should be done weekly by a central panel at Shaftesbury Ave for consistency etc.
Flash’s suggestion to disqualify horses is ridiculous (are you sure you’re involved in the right sport Flash ), I’m surprised he has so much confidence in stewards to arrive at the correct decision, as we see with interference, decisions can vary from one set of stewards to another, it’s quite possible another set of stewards would have found some of the jockeys not guilty and others guilty.
As a side issue it would have a disastrous effect on in running betting.The less stewards decide on the day the better as far as I’m concerned, we’ve even seen a number of decisions reversed on appeal, I’ve no confidence in them whatsoever.
Some of you tree huggers should take up tiddly-winks instead of horse racingAre some of you really saying you were appalled at the standard of jockeyship (misuse of whip etc) at the festival? So, one or two got it wrong, it happens nearly every day of the week and jockeys get suspended, that’s all the offences are worth I’m afraid. These lads put their life and limb on the line for our entertainment every day of the week. Repeat offenders get further days under the totting up procedure as happened with Spencer last season.
King says the stewards are ruining the game but some of the suggestions on here are far worse and would ruin it even more. The appeals procedure would rule out any same day or next day ban, in fact I don’t think stewards on the day between races should be deciding these things, they should be done weekly by a central panel at Shaftesbury Ave for consistency etc.
Flash’s suggestion to disqualify horses is ridiculous (are you sure you’re involved in the right sport Flash ), I’m surprised he has so much confidence in stewards to arrive at the correct decision, as we see with interference, decisions can vary from one set of stewards to another, it’s quite possible another set of stewards would have found some of the jockeys not guilty and others guilty.
As a side issue it would have a disastrous effect on in running betting.The less stewards decide on the day the better as far as I’m concerned, we’ve even seen a number of decisions reversed on appeal, I’ve no confidence in them whatsoever.
Some of you tree huggers should take up tiddly-winks instead of horse racingYou are completely missing the point.
Firstly – Jockeys aren’t "getting it wrong" its no accident its a deliberate action because it pays them to break the rules – they gain from it.
Secondly – Things can’t remain as they are because if they do soon the responsibility will be taken away from Racing’s governing bodies and will become a criminal matter. Its only a matter of time look at fox hunting. In todays world of extreme liberalism there are pressure groups aplenty and they’re not ignorant to the fact that racing has whip rules in place that are being deliberately ignored by jockeys and no doubt trainers as well that want to win at all costs. In other words "its worth the ban".
Do you really want racings name and image to be splashed across front pages of newspapers for all the wrong reasons again?
The sport needs all the help it can get regarding image. Take a newbie to the sport that watched for the first time at Cheltenham. He / she watches a race, enjoys it thinks "hey this is OK" then five minutes later hears that a jockey has been suspended for "missuse of the whip". A race later – the same thing happens ….. then it happens again.
Personally I’m in favour of a total whip ban horses can still run the sport won’t suffer it’ll just take a bit of getting used to a bit of a transition period.
However doing away with the whip isn’t the only answer its not an all or nothing, racing has the rules in place regarding whip offences the problem is whenever there is a big race jockeys totally ignore the rules because the prize outweights the punishment.
You only have to disqualify one or two horses and jockeys mentalities would soon change. Yes they’d moan, of course they’re used to riding how they ride but in three or four years time everyone would wonder what all the fuss was about once everyone was used to the new way of doing things.
People get set in their ways and tend to see things from their own point of view but there’s a bigger world than racing and a bigger picture. Some people within the sport are guilty of an insular nature and a lack of foresight. Its 2008 now, racing needs to get in line with the times.
PS! I’m hardly a tree hugger – (easy label to pin on someone in disagreement), in fact I’m pro capital and corporal punishment, so far from it.
Are some of you really saying you were appalled at the standard of jockeyship (misuse of whip etc) at the festival? So, one or two got it wrong, it happens nearly every day of the week and jockeys get suspended, that’s all the offences are worth I’m afraid. These lads put their life and limb on the line for our entertainment every day of the week. Repeat offenders get further days under the totting up procedure as happened with Spencer last season.
King says the stewards are ruining the game but some of the suggestions on here are far worse and would ruin it even more. The appeals procedure would rule out any same day or next day ban, in fact I don’t think stewards on the day between races should be deciding these things, they should be done weekly by a central panel at Shaftesbury Ave for consistency etc.
Flash’s suggestion to disqualify horses is ridiculous (are you sure you’re involved in the right sport Flash ), I’m surprised he has so much confidence in stewards to arrive at the correct decision, as we see with interference, decisions can vary from one set of stewards to another, it’s quite possible another set of stewards would have found some of the jockeys not guilty and others guilty.
As a side issue it would have a disastrous effect on in running betting.The less stewards decide on the day the better as far as I’m concerned, we’ve even seen a number of decisions reversed on appeal, I’ve no confidence in them whatsoever.
Some of you tree huggers should take up tiddly-winks instead of horse racingSadly, your post sums up precisely why up to now there appears to have little positive movement on the issue. Thankfully, if you believe the Racing Post on Monday those in a position to actually do something are no longer looking at this issue through a blindfold. Perhaps if drastic changes are made it will be you playing tiddly-winks?
I think disqualification is a non-starter, due to borderline cases. Where there is a case 50% of people do believe is whip "abuse" and 50% do not, it will get bad publicity either way.
And I am sure stewards in some cases will be lenient when offences have taken place, letting off the jockey completely. If such a penalty arises.
Where as confiscation of prize money that could go to a good cause (like more places for rehabilitation of racehorses), with the result standing, would not be such a contraversial outcome.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingExcuse my ignorance about the habits and traits of the thoroughbred as my riding experience (horses that is
) was confined to six months in a summer twenty years ago but……Is there any real reason why whips are used other than for the obvious reason of making it go faster. Is there a real need for safety reasons why a whip should be carried ? Are there any conclusions from the hands and heels races that there is an increased danger due to non use of the whip ? It seems to me that a lot of the interference is due to the whip being used. You always seem to be hearing he’s using the whip in the wrong hand, didn’t pull his whip through etc etc. If a whip is needed to be carried for safety reasons could it be solely used at the front end and banned from the rear end. If used behind instant disqualification.
If the only reason is to make the horse go faster get rid, at least everyone is on a level playing field then.
I know nothing about the Flat so can’t comment on that but in NH why don’t we just change the rule so horses can’t be hit after the last.
It would be fair on the horses, the jockeys and punters.
Aaronisneez,
I posed similar questions a while ago on some other thread. As expected we got nowhere, and there was the usual crap trotted out, without much fresh thought or new ideas.
I still believe we’d do well to get back to basics. I notice that in the old black-and-white westerns where everyone – cowpoke, dude, redskin or dude – rode at faster than life, breakneck gallopiing, none carried or used the whip. Yet, when the wagons or stagecoaches were trying to outrun attackers, then it was whip crack away time full on.
I asked one guy in the old thread about barrel-racing, which is a great test of horse control. The guy, with a location given as " the old West" or somesuch, never did reply, and now he seems to be banned.
Anyway, with little realistic hope of ever getting anywhere, may I ask the modern day experts,
are there any verbal commands nowadays for
"gallop" and for " gallop faster"?
If there are, then what are the associated aids – either below saddle,or, fore and aft?
), I’m surprised he has so much confidence in stewards to arrive at the correct decision, as we see with interference, decisions can vary from one set of stewards to another, it’s quite possible another set of stewards would have found some of the jockeys not guilty and others guilty.
) was confined to six months in a summer twenty years ago but……
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.