Revisiting BHB v William Hill ?

[% MAN]

Wit –

What would be the legal position if TRF published racecard info – or results – or racing fixture lists? (without paying anybody of course!)

The BHA currently licence use of the full or extracted (i.e. principal races) fixture list. There is, currently, no charge for the licence but it has to be renewed on an annual basis.

Presumably this is to ensure the fixture list is not "abused", rather than any commercial gain. An appropriate licensing message has to appear with the fixtures (I have added it as a strapline on the bottom of every page on my web site, just to avoid omitting it where I should use it)

The BHA can and do take action against web sites / publishers which reproduce the fixture list without a licence.

If you want to reproduce fixture list details broken down by individual course then it is slightly more complex. You need not only the BHA license but you also need specific approval from the individual racecourse. Which is why four of the course reviews on my web site do not include fixture information, two keep ignoring my requests and the other two took exception to critical reviews.

Regarding results that is a more complex situation. The Press Association have the rights for disseminating the results and by implication hold copyright. That’s why I don’t carry a full results service on my web site.

However when I am reporting from a course I will carry the full result as that is reportage direct from the venue and does not use the PA service.

There was an interesting row earlier this year when TurfTV tried to claim it had rights to the results data at the courses it covered. As a result we did not get the "results sheets" with the full finishing order and distances at TurfTV courses.

That wasn’t too much of a problem for me as I only report the distances of the placed horses, which is announced over the public address.

However it caused a major problem for the Raceform / RP race readers who had to wait for the result to appear on the racing admin web site to get the full finishing order and distances.

We are now getting the results sheets again, so I presume some agreement was reached.

[wit]

Hi Paul

Thanks for that.

Be interesting to see what happens to the racing fixture-list situation when the final judgment in Football Dataco comes out, because in relation to football fixture-lists it seems clear that the Advocate General is saying the ECJ should confirm:

– there is no sui generis protection

– there is no copyright protection for the content (as opposed to the structure) of a database

– the fixtures are already decided before they are input into the database, and are not output generated by the database

– while a football fixture list could be protected by copyright if there was some additional original element introduced by the creator – graphical/colour elements etc – it would be only the means of displaying the data and not the underlying data that would be protected

– national law cannot confer protection on a database that is not given by the database directive

If football fixture-list raw info ends up judicially confirmed to be outside of copyright, is there any basis on which racing fixture-list info might reasonably claim different treatment ?

seems unlikely………

[wit]

full EU Court decision out earlier than anticipated:

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/d … id=1759096

basically bad news for Football DataCo seeking to control, and charge for, the reproduction of football fixture lists.

but just need to wait and see what the UK court that asked the EU court for this ruling, now does with this answer.

[wit]

still waiting for the UK court to wrap up in the "main" Dataco case.

but in the meantime there has been a judgment in another case involving Dataco, this time in relation to its fast-reporting of goals, etc during matches – and whether the "live scores" service run by Sportradar / Betradar infringes rights of Dataco under the Database Directive.

apart from explaining how "live scores" works (watching Soccer Saturday on SKY seems to play a part), this may interest those wanting to know the Court’s likely view on reporting horseracing results:

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59. I think there is a fundamental difference between runners and riders in a horse race and fixture lists, on the one hand, and goals and other sporting results recorded at a live match on the other. It is perfectly rational to say that the former lists are created by the organisers of the events. But the organisers of a football match do not create the goals: that is the province of the footballers. The organisers do no more than provide the environment in which the goals can be scored. They have no control over whether goals are scored or not.

60. In my judgment, factual data which is collected and recorded at a live event such as a football match about events outside the control of the person doing the collection and recording is not created by that person, but is obtained by him

…….

19. …..distinction between created data and obtained data is the following.

Data which is created by an individual or organisation is, in most cases at least, not available to others until it is created. There is, accordingly, no alternative source for such data. If one allows a database right to attach to data which is created by the maker of the database, the creator obtains a true monopoly in that data. Such a result would be inconsistent with the objectives of the Directive. The Directive should not be construed in a way which gives a party a monopoly in facts, such as the runners and riders or the fixture lists.

On the other hand where a database consists of data obtained from sources available to the public, such as existing published data, the balance of policy considerations is different. There is (or should be) nothing to prevent the public from investing in obtaining those data themselves. The owner of a database right in data which is obtained in this way does not achieve a stranglehold on the facts. The objectives of the Directive are therefore furthered by encouraging investment in the obtaining, verification and presentation of data, without creating monopolies in facts.

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http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2012/1185.html

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