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We should also not look back into our formative horse racing years with rose coloured specs.
There was a time where owners thought they’d done it all after winning The Derby and immediately packed the horse off to stud.
That may return with a 1m2f Derby.
Value Is EverythingIndeed. The wheels turn very slowly in British horse racing so I doubt it will even be looked at this decade. Fingers crossed for a fabulous derby winner soon.
I would dispute that every owner aspires most to owning a Derby or Arc winner.
I also regard this as a parochial view on what is now a global stage.
The Breeders’ Cup Classic and the Dubai World Cup are 1m2f for a reason – these races weren’t conceived in the 18th century and reflect the times they are in.
It will be a sad day for all us traditionalists if The Derby is ever changed, but to make light of the clear market forces for it to happen is to be in denial IMO.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I would dispute that every owner aspires most to owning a Derby or Arc winner.
I also regard this as a parochial view on what is now a global stage.
The Breeders’ Cup Classic and the Dubai World Cup are 1m2f for a reason – these races weren’t conceived in the 18th century and reflect the times they are in.
May be not “every owner” but the vast majority.
The Breeders Cup Classic is an American race for American horses and for America 1m2f has always been the ideal.
Dubai World Cup is a UAE race devised to (primarily) attract American horses… Otherwise it would be on grass. For sure in USA 1m2f is the distance, 1m4f regarded as a stayers trip, only one or two “Marathon” 1m6f races and every race run around flat, left handed oval tracks.
We are not the USA.
We are Britain, we are Europe.“Market forces” / “global stage” does not mean the American way.
Who wants the American way of doing things?
Not meValue Is EverythingThroughout this otherwise highly-enjoyable discussion , though you have IMO made your customary excellent points, you have used terms like “wants.”
I have repeatedly said I am a traditionalist and do not seek change.
I am merely pointing out that the landscape has changed and the Classic structure I love every bit as much as you do, has become an ill fit with it, Guineas aside.
It’s not about what we “want” to happen or “should” happen – it is about what “might” happen eventually due to the forces at work.
The Goodwood Cup was 2m5f, now 2m, the Queens Vase is 1m6f from 2m.
These are relatively minor races, but the market forces for speed in the breed prompted the changes and sadly I don’t think the middle-distance and staying Classics as we know them will be eternally exempt from these pressures.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The Goodwood Cup was reduced in distance around 30 years ago, and two and a half miles plus flat races were an anachronism even then.
From what I understand, the Queen’s Vase was reduced as it was deemed too far for three year-olds at that time of the season, but the intent remains for it to be a “feeder race” for high-class stayers.
I’m not denying the existence of market forces placing increasing emphasis on speed, but seriously doubt that reducing the Derby distance would improve its competitiveness or the average rating of its winner.
Goodness me, so it was – the last running over 2m5f was in 1989.
Really showing my age there!
Apparently it was once a 3m Flat race!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Apologies Ian, but you can easily replace “want” with “need”.
ie…
We are not the USA.
We are Britain, we are Europe.“Market forces” / “global stage” does not mean the American way.
Who needs the American way of doing things?
Not me, not Britain, not Europe.Value Is EverythingIt really is scary, Marlingford.
It seems like only yesterday I was at Goodwood watching Longboat win the old 2m5f version!
Fair enough, GT, I don’t want to Americanise UK racing either, but The Derby badly needs an impressive winner with a good old-fashioned middle-distance pedigree to give it a boost.
Australia and Golden Horn were the last two I would call “proper” Derby winners, even if the latter was by Cape Cross out of a Dubai Destination mare!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"ie…
We are not the USA.
We are Britain, we are Europe.“Market forces” / “global stage” does not mean the American way.
Who needs the American way of doing things?
Not me, not Britain, not Europe.Funnily enough I was thinking this the other day…
Why do we want to ape what US racing does? The country that allows drugs in some of their states? And their almost identikit, almost athletics track courses. Our racing culture is completely different, why do we want to copy what they do?I wasn’t against the introduction of the AW in the autumn of 1989; 2-3 meetings per week throughout winter is fine; it provides income for the bookies, and allows low grade horses to win a little prize money for their connections. But only from Nov – March.
If you want to run your better horses for better prize money, either go abroad, or go jumping.Having seen the increase in AW Meetings, now all year round, I think it’s a massive mistake, and a poor shortsighted decision.
As for the Goodwood Cup, I remember that 1989 running over 2m5f; the Gold Cup winner Sadeem, unable to give weight away to the younger Mazzacano.
Why do we want to ape what US racing does? The country that allows drugs in some of their states? And their almost identikit, almost athletics track courses. Our racing culture is completely different, why do we want to copy what they do?
Wise words indeed and of course this “let’s do what they do” is hardly confined to racing which baffles me completely but perhaps that’s a subject for a different thread.
He we are again following another thread about extending Cheltenham.
Seems to me the change for changes sake people are in operation again, trying to justify their positions.
Horse racing will end up going to the dogs the same way quite literally with these poor custodians in charge of the sport.Still remember the initiative to get more students attending racecourses to boost numbers. Trouble is students haven’t got any money.
It’s thoughts like that that worry me.The race some might say has become the spiritual French Derby is run at Longchamp on Wednesday evening.
The Grand Prix de Paris used to be run over 1m7f, but is nowadays a 1m4f contest and it has attracted Hurricane Lane, the Irish Derby winner, Saiydabad, who seemed to find the 1m2f110yds of the modern Prix Du Jockey Club (French Derby) an inadequate test when a staying-on fourth at Chantilly, Alenquer, winner of the King Edward VII Stakes at Royal Ascot and a trio from Ballydoyle.
Wouldn’t it be great if the winner turned out to be better than St Mark’s Basilica?
Keep that 1m4f flag flying.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I think there is a lot to like about Hurricane Lane.
He has the most exquisite pedigree for middle distances – by Frankel out of a Shirocco mare who was Listed standard at up to 2m – and I think he would have won The Derby (and still be unbeaten) but for losing both front shoes.
He impressed me at The Curragh and so long as they do a decent gallop – never a certainty in France – he must be hard to beat.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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