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I thought the Gold Cup had been transferred to Bath at high altitude shortly after the Great Covid War Global Flood of 2164?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It did but returned to Ascot 2643 when the ultimate one vaccine cures all world viruses at the one off cost of 2 to 3 toes depending on blood type came into fruition
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Sometimes, Nathan, I just have to say:
“Brilliant.”This is one of those moments – no topping that, especially the toes!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Left to the likes of Julian Muscat, Richard Hoiles, Julian Wislon etc The Derby would be run over 10 furlongs, in the middle of July at Newbury.
Don’t think British Racing needs any help on how to ruin the sport. The BHA are doing a fine job as it is, in that respect.
How much better was it when Chester, York & The Newmarket July meeting etc were Tuesday to Thursday? Instead we have this non stop conveyor belt of big races on a Saturday? They can stick their Super Saturdays, it does not work with so many meetings on the day. The Ebor is just another race on a Saturday now, couldn’t tell you few if any recent winners of the race.
Races shown all around the world, apparently the best racing and just look at the prize money. How much are we making from the Worldpool?Talk of Frankel running in a 1m2f Derby is wrong.
As a 3 year old Frankel was far too free at 1m. Early fractions of the Guineas strongly suggests a move back to 6f would’ve been better than upping to 10 at that point in his career. His great trainer would never have gone up in trip after that Newmarket performance. Indeed, it wasn’t until August of Frankel’s 4 year old season was he moved up to 10f.Sea The Stars was a Guineas winner. So it is only natural for him to come back to 10f after winning the Derby. As did other double winners such as Nashwan.
Guineas and Derby are two very different races and so they should be. If it were too easy to win the double (if just 2f further) it wouldn’t mean as much.
Just because St Marks Basilica won the 10f French Derby and Eclipse does not mean Ballydoyle believed he was their best 3 year old going in to June. Indeed Magnier even said the reason why Coolmore only ran one horse in the Epsom Derby was because “some years one horse stands out” or words to that effect.
Last two years the Derby have possibly been disappointing. Jockeys got the pace wrong last year. This time around (although the winner may yet be good) many of the better horses returned with excuses. I believe Hurricane Lane lost two shoes at Epsom and has since proved top class in the Irish version. Ground conditions wrong for late Epsom non-runner / subsequent Royal Ascot winner and potential Group 1 horse Mohaafeth… And we don’t know what Bolshoi Ballet could have achieved.
St Marks Basilica is obviously a good horse and progressive, but we shouldn’t judge the Epsom and Chantilly race on one horse. The Prix Du Jockey Club field was imo no better than The Derby… And certainly judged by recent runnings The move from 12 to 10f of the French Derby has not – on the whole – attracted better horses than the English version.
I don’t see a problem.
Value Is EverythingOf all that notwithstanding, had The Derby been 1m2f I think Cecil would have been very tempted.
After all, he ran eventual non-stayers Wollow, Lyphard’s Wish and Hello Gorgeous (to name but three off the top of my head) in the existing 1m4f version.
The Derby would definitely attract a more competitive field if it was 1m2f and it would appeal commercially to breeders too given global demand for 1m-1m2f horses.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want it to happen, but the commercial case for it is strong.
I think it will always stay at Epsom, though.
The track is part of the quintessential Classic test and, Dancing Brave apart, virtually all of the outstanding runners in the race have shown their true quality by overcoming any trouble in running to win anyway.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Can’t agree with that GT. Grimethorpe is on record saying the Derby was very much in the discussion, and Cecil had to work hard to convince Abdullah to skip the race and keep to a mile and head to the SJP. There is a very recent Podcast on the RP saying as much.
BUY THE SUN
There is too much breeding for speed and I am convinced the thoroughbred is becoming more unsound. It should be resisted, not encouraged.
Keep the Derby at 1m 4f and keep it at Epsom. It is the supreme test of a horse’s balance, soundness and temperament. A Derby winner needs a turn of foot but stamina as well.
Derby winners are the horses we should be breeding from. Not flashy speed merchants.
it can quickly get the NH sire label at stud
To attract new people to the sport perhaps they could add a hurdle a few hundred metres past Tattenham corner
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
All very well saying “should be”, but its not the case mate. Who is the last important Stallion Derby winner who didn’t didn’t prove himself top drawer at 10f or less? Galileo?
BUY THE SUN
If everyone was out to win a 10f race then why did only 4 turn up to the Eclipse.?
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
A fair point Nathan. I don’t know. I was really dissapointed indeed with the declarations and thought it was disgraceful. As are the RP trying to compare it to Dessie v Panto Prince, with the fact Dessie’s OR scared nearly everyone off running miles out of the weights conveniently ignored.
BUY THE SUN
It is quality, not quantity, that makes a race competitive.
The Eclipse only had four runners but the first three all had ORs of 120 ore more.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Nothing wrong with both ID. The Falmouth this week is my idea of a Group 1.
BUY THE SUN
There are enough 10f group 1 now; albeit a 10f Group 1 for three year olds might be welcome. But why not make it the Dante?
If listening to breeders it’s all about speed, speed and more speed. Even if actually looking at the best stallions most have a significant amount of stamina.
However, if dropping the Derby to 10f it will be a nail in the coffin for stamina. Derby is THE 3 year old race that requires a fair amount of stamina. If that goes then there is even less incentive for breeders to use horses with a fair amount of stamina… Less incentive too for stayers. ie Try to breed a 12f classic winner and you might get a stayer instead… and this helps to maintain the quality of our stayers. Where as if breeders try for a top class 10f horse they might end up with a 12f horse, but unlikely to get a stayer (or what we recognise now as a “stayer”). Therefore a far greater risk of lowering the quality of our stayers. With quality of stayers decreasing it won’t only be Derby and St Leger decreasing in distance. Derby is so important every one of our top races from 1m4f to 2m4f will eventually be under threat. Possibly even the Arc.
Value Is EverythingThanks TTC.
Can’t agree with that GT. Grimethorpe is on record saying the Derby was very much in the discussion, and Cecil had to work hard to convince Abdullah to skip the race and keep to a mile and head to the SJP. There is a very recent Podcast on the RP saying as much.
tbh I don’t care what Teddy Grimthorpe or the Prince said about going to Epsom, TTC. In reality there was no chance of Frankel’s trainer Sir Henry running a horse who (at that time) could hardly be held on to to stay a mile, let alone 1m2f. Indeed, could even argue – the way he ran in the Guineas – Frankel won it without truly staying the mile. Sectional times tell us he was so fast out of the gate and through the early and middle stages (without Queally asking) Frankel produced sprint fractions and slowed significantly in the latter stages. In other words: Frankel went faster than was advantageous to him at only 8f; so going up to 10f next time out was never going to happen… Especially when Coolmore were bound to make the most of that weakness.
After all, he ran eventual non-stayers Wollow, Lyphard’s Wish and Hello Gorgeous (to name but three off the top of my head) in the existing 1m4f version.
Yes, Sir Henry was not afraid of those horses failing to stay, Ian. But none of those three (or any other that I can think of) was so free at a mile on their “Derby trial”. There’s “not staying” and then there’s risking the horse’s future temperament from an extremely bad experience.
Value Is Everything
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