September 1, 2007 at 14:37 #4982MikkyMo73Member
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OK, I will be the first to go over the top <!– s8) –><!– s8) –>
Looks to have that amazing ability to travel well on the bridle and quicken decisively – he has done that twice now in has last 2 races.
MikeSeptember 1, 2007 at 15:10 #113263rainbow-promisesMember
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Nice horse! Very nice horse! One to watch for sureSeptember 1, 2007 at 15:51 #113265HimselfParticipant
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Yes, backed it! Very good performance,
A few us already highlighted the Gosden colt’s potential (page 4 I believe ) a few weeks ago.
Gambling Only Pays When You're WinningSeptember 1, 2007 at 19:13 #113272dandanMember
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A good one, but he beat diddlysquat on the day.September 1, 2007 at 19:20 #113273HimselfParticipant
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A good one, but he beat diddlysquat on the day.
Nah, diddysquat was a non-runner!
Seriously, I think it was the manner in which he won that caught the eye – and he beat the juvenile course record into the bargain.
Gambling Only Pays When You're WinningSeptember 1, 2007 at 21:35 #113285Maxilon 5Member
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Missed the race earlier, but just watched it on replay.
What i really like about this horse is how uncomplicated he is. He’s just a bullet in equine form.September 1, 2007 at 21:36 #113286CavParticipant
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Shaping up to be a vintage guineas next yearSeptember 1, 2007 at 21:51 #113287davidjohnsonMember
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Shaping up to be a vintage guineas next year
Err was was the 2007 renewal 12 months ago!! Hopefully they’ll all come together in the Dewhurst.September 1, 2007 at 22:15 #113288cormack15Keymaster
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What are the clock-watchers saying about it?September 1, 2007 at 22:55 #113294alan1Member
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As a "clock watcher" it was simply stunning. The best speed figure i’ve given to a 2yo this season by quite a margin.
I actually layed the horse today as the speed figures of its first two races weren’t great, which tells you how they can lie if you look at them literally, but as Andy Beyer would say a good horse can run a bad speed figure but a bad horse can’t run a good one. Or something like that!!September 2, 2007 at 09:09 #113313ClintMMember
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which tells you how they can lie if you look at them literally,
The problem with taking certain speed figures as benchmark of a horse’s ability is that the figures in question might have been obtained in races that weren’t run in a manner conducive for producing good figures. After all, good final times and speed figures are only obtainable when races are run at even pace, and no horse , no matter how good it is, will put up stunning figures if races are run in an uneven manner.
The above highlights the vital importance of studying all race sectionals – not just the final one.
Moving on to Andy Beyer, as he rightly says, no bad horse is capable of putting up big time figures. Judging by the Sandown clock, Raven’s Pass is a very long way remote from being bad horse, and is going to be, all things being well, a major player at Newmarket next May, imho.September 2, 2007 at 09:37 #113314ArtemisParticipant
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I agree with every word. Many people expect times to be good for all top races, but that’s not always the case. Many years before Beyer, Phil Bull(of Timeform), expressed the view that a good time was the only proof positive of a top class performance, and that very good performances not substantiated by good times, left lingering doubts about the merit of the form.
Raven’s Pass has been rated 110 by Topspeed, which is the same as Henrythenavigator for the Coventry Stakes at Ascot.September 2, 2007 at 10:33 #113324guskennedyMember
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Ravens Pass recorded a very good time yesterday but on my figures it was still a couple of pounds behind Rio De La Plata’s at Goodwood.September 2, 2007 at 14:09 #113350ClintMMember
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"Artemis":2mzwtxy5 wrote: Clint,
and that very good performances not substantiated by good times, left lingering doubts about the merit of the form.
Absolutely! But , obviously, it doesn’t mean that an owner of a mediocre time performance isn’t capable of better.
Of course, dubious outcomes will always happen (this season’s Eclipse is , imho, one example) and time analysis/sectionals provide the form student with invaluable clues, again imho, in the quest to draw thorough result conclusions ; certainly more so than using solely collateral form-study methods, which all too often leave one scratching one’s head.
Raven’s Pass has been rated 110 by Topspeed, which is the same as Henrythenavigator for the Coventry Stakes at Ascot.
I can’t wait for ‘Henry’ to race on a sound surface again, providing his races on soft/heavy going haven’t left their mark.September 2, 2007 at 14:33 #113353BosranicMember
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Raven’s Pass put in an absolutely stunning performance. He has improved with every race and deserves to be towards the head of the ante-post market for the 2008 running of the 2,000 guineas.
The form of his previous races are not exceptional. But Centennial and Copywriter (3rd and 4th respectively in his Yarmouth maiden) have both come out and won. They are also trained by John Gosden. He’s no fool and should have an idea just how good Raven’s Pass is.
I like the look of Brian Meehan’s Acomb winner Fast Company. Currently a best-priced 16/1, he holds a plethora of big-race entries. He’s two-for-two, his maiden victory boasts solid form and there’s not much between him and New Approach who have both defeated the Aiden O’Brien trained Lucifer Sam. He would be far more prominent in the market if he hailed from a more ‘fashionable’ yard.
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