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Kilmah has already run six times and rising.
That’s nothing, in the mid 80’s I think 2yo Dublin Lad ran 26 times in the season and Provideo must have run a lot, because he won 16 times at 2yo if I recall correctly. I always wondered why he didn’t train on
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Surely in spite of all their big-race wins the biggest underachievers, by far, given the amount that they have invested are the Maktoum family?
In a similar vein, Mr O’Brien can often have 3 or 4 runners in a big race. I could tip that many per race and I’d get loads of winners but it wouldn’t make me a good tipster. I’m not belittling him, clearly the guy is very good at what he does and the vast majority of us couldn’t do it in a month of Sundays but does he really warrant the amount that some racing media are up his backside? Or is he in fact still overachieving relative to the vast resources he has available to him?
Hmm interesting
But, how many “second string” horses win big races? Look at the Oaks in 2015 or the Yorkshire Oaks in 2014 (she was a good horse but suspected to be a bit finished – alas people put it down to an error on Paul Hanigan’s part). Ryan Moore was ridding for Coolmore since about 2011ish. Many of his wins for O’Brien (outside of Breeders Cup and rides on So You Think) prior to the official signing was on so called second string horses eg Snow Queen 2012 Guineas. Although I backed Ruler of the World in 2013 for the Derby, price and being the only one to have won at 12f, he was “second string”
Sometimes you just can’t be sure which of yours will win, might as well throw them all in. While I was always prepared to draw a line in Magician’s (Irish Guineas) run at Ascot as O’Brien said he injured himself , few would have expected him to pip The Fauge in the Breeders Cup in 2013 after being so long out.
If he can’t get them winning in Ireland or the UK, they don’t do too badly in the US or even , recently, Australia. Winning the Cox’s Plate is no mean feat – Adelaide (also won in the US and bar badish ride from O’Donoghue should have won a second US Group 1). Some of those in the English Derby might go on and win the Irish Classics. Order of St George looked like a bit of a disappointment early last year and he tore them up in the Irish St Leger and did well to win the Ascot Gold Cup this year (Moore admitted he rode him badly)
Considering he has been Champion Trainer in Britain multiple times, while based in Ireland and having it’s own programme there, I am not sure that it is underachieving. Horses are not machines after all.
I am pleased with myself that I put a small punt on O’Brien to be champion trainer in March, solely based on the fact that Moore would probably encourage him to bring over more of his horses for early and mid group 2 and 3 races , outside of Ascot, that he might not normally bother with. Gosden was looking good at the start of the Season. O’Brien has passed the 5 million mark and it is not even September and he “only” won two classics so far and no Derby – He was still comfortably in the lead before the King George and a nice prize second in the International.
To be fair to O’Brien, Ascot 2015 saw him being more selective in what horses he would run and stuck to one horse one race.Not all of his will be Group 1 winners, but many can at least do well to check prestigious Group 2 and 3’s . The only thing that is missing from his cv is a few more Group 1s in the sprinting division. Wachman appeared to have been Coolmore’s speedster trainer for a while.
Look at the Derby this year, it was noted that O’Brien’s colts last year and this year weren’t great compared to his fillies. (exclude Gleneagles and Air Force Blue – talking about Derby contenders) Yet, since the Irish trials in March had softish ground he took some of his to England, his horse won the Lingfield Trial, came close in the Dante, and two of his horses were 1-2 in the other Derby trial at Chester. Not bad, 2 out of 3
Still way better than Godolpin when they use to throw a few in (bar the Irish Champions Stakes in 2001 of course lol)
Good Topic
For me, in Ireland, it has to be owner, Barry Connell. A decent man, had promises to donate all of the prize money expected of Our Conor , to the injured jockeys fund. Sadly, that horse barely made it to the 3rd hurdle in the 2014 Cheltenham Champions Hurdle. He also pulled his horse out of running in 2014 because he was trained by a certain trainer who would being questioned for a raid on his stable . Others continued to run their horses trained by the said trainer, that took balls.
He has spent a fortune on horses, but sends them to trainers that would not exactly scream success. Shame Dessie Hughes is no longer around.
Have to agree with that, he spent big money on a 10-yr-old hunter a few yrs ago (can’t recall the name) which seemed bizarre at the time, and wasn’t a success. BU JP must be even worse, does any owner have so many bad horses? Respect for him keeping the industry going tho
Have to agree with that, he spent big money on a 10-yr-old hunter a few yrs ago (can’t recall the name) which seemed bizarre at the time, and wasn’t a success. BU JP must be even worse, does any owner have so many bad horses? Respect for him keeping the industry going tho.
I am not sure that people ever want to say anything bad about JP He most certainly keeps many people in racing in both Ireland and UK. He does a lot for the injured jockeys fund and in Limerick in general
But, yeah, he is as bad as Godolpin in the sense that he will buy up any decent young horse that won a good race (though Jim Bolger won’t complain as he clearly got his two year olds to be prepped to be bought by them) .Sadly the investment might not have been a good one thereafter. However, saying that, he regularly did win both the UK and Irish owners titles, until Gigginstown got its act together. It was quantity over quality for JP. It has worked eg 1-2-3 in the Galway Plate in 2013
Still Carlingford Lough has been a great servant to them , in Ireland. Jetson has done well in JP’s colours as well
I hope Barry Geraghty does not regret becoming his main jockey,
I’m pleased others are questioning Mark Johnston!
He runs his 2yo’s into the ground and has a habit of putting his horses in the wrong races. His treatment of Lumiere and more so Buratino has been particularly frustrating… Neither looked Guineas horses to me and were prepped poorly for those races. I can’t believe it took him 4 races to step Frankuus up in trip, especially after his one-paced finish on faster ground at Ascot!
Any nominations yet for Donald McCain?
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
arguably the trainer’s best horse, My Way De Solzen, lost the plot completely,
Agree up to a point with the general observation on Alan King’s achievements, but MWDS’s is a slightly problematic example to posit. A long gelding, he became an absolute martyr to a kissing spine complaint for the last couple of years of his tenure at Barbury Castle.
It took a lot of patience on the part of owner Jerry Wright and subsequent trainer Gabe Mahon to get him to the point where he could enjoy life free of pain again to the extent that he could stand a couple of light campaigns in Point-to-Points and hunter chases.
I saw his last ever race, an open Point at Tabley in May 2013, and although outpaced on the run-in to be relegated from first to third he looked an absolutely regal presence and, above all, he ran and jumped in the manner of a very happy horse. It hadn’t always been possible to say that in the past.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
A long gelding, he became an absolute martyr to a kissing spine complaint for the last couple of years of his tenure at Barbury Castle. I’m not sure to what extent that was King’s doing, much less the wisdom of insinuating as much.
I honestly wasn’t aware that the horse suffered from this problem. Thanks for putting me right on that one.
A long gelding, he became an absolute martyr to a kissing spine complaint for the last couple of years of his tenure at Barbury Castle. I’m not sure to what extent that was King’s doing, much less the wisdom of insinuating as much.
I honestly wasn’t aware that the horse suffered from this problem. Thanks for putting me right on that one.
Doesn’t bode well for The New One’s pending chase career…
I would think you could probably add John Dunlop to this ever growing list.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t he have nigh on two hundred horses in his later career.
Never won enough races with the ammo he had IMO.I would think you could probably add John Dunlop to this ever growing list.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t he have nigh on two hundred horses in his later career.
Never won enough races with the ammo he had IMO.A bit harsh, in my opinion. Dunlop trained the winners of all the domestic Classics, with the exception of the 2,000 Guineas, and over 3,000 races in total…. so he didn’t do too badly.
I always thought he should have trained more though Glad.
How long did he train for and how many horses in his yard per year ?
Cos 3000 winners looks great but you wouldn’t want too many Snaafi Dancers to turn up to screw your figures for you.
Trained for 46 years I think so averages out at about 60 odd winners a year and like I say I think he had shed loads of horses in his yard per year.
It is after all just my humble opinion even though he had seventy odd group ones as well!!
I can understand your viewpoint but you have to remember that racing was far more competitive twenty or thirty years ago; the big races were shared amongst the likes of Cecil, Stoute, Harwood, Hern, Dunlop, Cumani and others.
As for the sheer numbers, there was far less racing in the good old days!
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