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In the same way as certain trainers seem to be able to punch above their weight taking into account the standard of horses they get e.g. Paul Cole during the 80s and 90s without the top patronage e.g. the Makhtoum family, there are many trainers who seem to find a way to fail to come up with the goods despite what is at their disposal.
Any nominations as to who falls into the latter category ?Ben Case has spent a huge amount of money at the sales in the last 5-10 years. What does he have to show for it? Deep Trouble and Croco Bay.
Good Topic
For me, in Ireland, it has to be owner, Barry Connell. A decent man, had promises to donate all of the prize money expected of Our Conor , to the injured jockeys fund. Sadly, that horse barely made it to the 3rd hurdle in the 2014 Cheltenham Champions Hurdle. He also pulled his horse out of running in 2014 because he was trained by a certain trainer who would being questioned for a raid on his stable . Others continued to run their horses trained by the said trainer, that took balls.
He has spent a fortune on horses, but sends them to trainers that would not exactly scream success. Shame Dessie Hughes is no longer around.
One man stands head and shoulders above everyone else in the National Hunt game.
Step forward Jonjo O’Neill. No wonder the man runs such a secretive operation. The amount of money pumped into that yard relative to results is just ridiculous. Most of the very expensive stores either fade into obscurity or are quickly looking for a handicap mark. Always had to laugh at McCoy’s continuing pleas for new owners.
No wonder that cheeky smirk is never far from O’Neill’s face.
I’m assuming you are simply agitating Stilvi but if this is underachieving then I don’t know….
Grand National
Irish Grand National
Welsh Grand National
Gold Cup
Topham
Mildmay Chase
World Hurdle
JLT Novices
Paddy Power Gold Cup
Lexus
Ryanair
RSA Chase
Aintree Hurdle
Tommy Whittle
Sefton Novices hurdle
Triumph Hurdle
Christmas Hurdle
Flying Fifth
Tolworth Hurdle
County Hurdlequite a few of those more than once.
Add in Northumberland Plate, Ascot Stakes, Windsor Castle Stakes on teh flat (among many others)
COME ON!!!
One man stands head and shoulders above everyone else in the National Hunt game.
I’d say that Alan King isn’t too far behind; plenty of promising young horses but very few of them ever go on to top accomplishments.
One man stands head and shoulders above everyone else in the National Hunt game.
I’d say that Alan King isn’t too far behind; plenty of promising young horses but very few of them ever go on to top accomplishments.
Surely that’s because he overraces a lot of them. Katchit is a good example, had a great early career and faded after that.
Johnston is similar on the flat, does very well in terms of number of winners but how many geninuely great horses has he trained? Attraction was arguably one.
But because of the way he trains, he does very well with two year olds, especially ones that can take a lot of racing. Kilmah is a good example, but I can’t see her doing much at three, because he’s already “Killed” her (excuse the pun.)
Surely that’s because he overraces a lot of them. Katchit is a good example, had a great early career and faded after that.
With horses like Katchit, bought off the flat, it’s understandable that their shelf life isn’t that long over jumps. But King’s record with promising jump-bred horses isn’t great- arguably the trainer’s best horse, My Way De Solzen, lost the plot completely, while the likes of Bensalem, Carraig Mor and others didn’t go on and Winter Escape is now sidelined. Obviously, you can’t predict a horse picking up an injury but King’s overall record is uninspiring.
I’ve said before that William Haggas is rarely seen dining at the top tables. He has a good strike rate but seems to have no sense of ambition whatsoever.
He seems content to feed off the well bred and expensive horses he gets and he’s one of the first trainers you can rule out of having a Classic winner most seasons.
His last 12 months have seen over 100 winners but less than a million quid in prize money. Just one filly in his care cost more than that this season. That filly was supplemented for the Oaks and ruled out just a few days later from taking her chance.
If that’s not underachieving, I don’t know what is.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I’m assuming you are simply agitating Stilvi but if this is underachieving then I don’t know….
Grand National
Irish Grand National
Welsh Grand National
Gold Cup
Topham
Mildmay Chase
World Hurdle
JLT Novices
Paddy Power Gold Cup
Lexus
Ryanair
RSA Chase
Aintree Hurdle
Tommy Whittle
Sefton Novices hurdle
Triumph Hurdle
Christmas Hurdle
Flying Fifth
Tolworth Hurdle
County Hurdlequite a few of those more than once.
Add in Northumberland Plate, Ascot Stakes, Windsor Castle Stakes on teh flat (among many others)
COME ON!!!
Not agitating at all. I assume you have done the same amount of research as I have done regarding the amount of money spent on horses that go through his yard? Most of which will never recoup anything like their purchase price. Given his raw material he is a massive under achiever.
Don’t like threads like this.
Writer’s bias has a habit of coming to the fore.Value Is EverythingJust to add the likes of Fred Winter, Bob Turnell and Michael Dickinson used to have relatively small strings (40-60) but it wasn’t uncommon to have 25% of the string well above average, if not champions. O’Neill probably has around 150 horses and if he gets a couple of decent ones each year he is considered a genius.
If King had a 30,000 store it would be expensive, for O’Neill it would be chicken feed.
One man stands head and shoulders above everyone else in the National Hunt game.
I’d say that Alan King isn’t too far behind; plenty of promising young horses but very few of them ever go on to top accomplishments.
Surely that’s because he overraces a lot of them. Katchit is a good example, had a great early career and faded after that.
Johnston is similar on the flat, does very well in terms of number of winners but how many geninuely great horses has he trained? Attraction was arguably one.
But because of the way he trains, he does very well with two year olds, especially ones that can take a lot of racing. Kilmah is a good example, but I can’t see her doing much at three, because he’s already “Killed” her (excuse the pun.)
I can’t stand Mark Johnson. Es que Love might never have been a world beater but the summer of 2013 was ridiculous. He ran some mighty races and lost out a few handicaps by very little eg Bunbury Cup 2013. He was sent out to run almost every Saturday for the whole summer. Often in big handicaps with big weights and rarely using an apprentice. Came no where. If he was given a little rest time he might have won a big prestious handicap. Look at his race history, almost running every week. The owners sent him to Clive Cox the following summer and low and be hold he places twice in group 2 and 3 races and then gets a Group 2 at Goodwood (Lennox) against Toormore, a 3 year old
Then there is Fire Fighting, Sennockian Star,
At least he gave some chance to Hartnell, Bow Creek, and Lumiere,the former went off to Australia and won a Group 1
Surely in spite of all their big-race wins the biggest underachievers, by far, given the amount that they have invested are the Maktoum family?
Surely in spite of all their big-race wins the biggest underachievers, by far, given the amount that they have invested are the Maktoum family?
In a similar vein, Mr O’Brien can often have 3 or 4 runners in a big race. I could tip that many per race and I’d get loads of winners but it wouldn’t make me a good tipster. I’m not belittling him, clearly the guy is very good at what he does and the vast majority of us couldn’t do it in a month of Sundays but does he really warrant the amount that some racing media are up his backside? Or is he in fact still overachieving relative to the vast resources he has available to him?
Just looked at the record of Es Que Love, he ran 50 odd times in three seasons.
That’s absolutely shocking. Surely there should be some kind of limit introduced where you can only run them so many times in a year. Otherwise it’s just exploitation to get prize money. Kilmah has already run six times and rising.
I know that they are from tough stock and if you read about Eclipse he would often run more than once in one day, and sometimes had to walk long distances just to get to meets, but we are living in different times now.
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