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Is it me, or are races in Ireland ran in a totally different way to those in England.
It seems everytime I watch an Irish race, the favourites and fancied runners set off in the lead or very close to the lead, and generally stay there, whereas the long shots, set off out the back, and generally stay there also.
Obviously the odds of the horses are going to suggest that the favs will finish near the front and the rags near the back – but it just seems that this is the order as soon as they set off. I just can’t remember the last time I saw an outsider come from a hold up position to win a race in Ireland – I can’t even remember the last time a horse of 25/1 or bigger won.
Take the last two races at Thurles as a perfect example. In the 1:45, the first three in the betting set off in the first three places, pulled clear and finished 1-2-3, the outsiders set off at the back and not one of them could mount a challenge. In the 2:15 it was exactly the same, the 5/4 joints set off in the first two places, drew well clear and would have finished 1-2 but for one of them falling two out – and again, the outsiders set off near the back and never got into a challenging position.
In England it’s so different. You get races where the rags will set off at breakneck speed, rags that will always be up there and fade, favs that will be held up well of the pace and sometimes stay there or sometimes come through and win etc.
I could be talking a load of crap of course and it’s possible that my mind is playing tricks with me. It could just be total coincidence that everytime I watch a few Irish races, they are ran like this.
Just to add, I much prefer the way the Irish races are ran with the fancied runners being up there and in contention throughout. And yes, I know you get well fancied hold up horses in Ireland coming from last to first (especially with Ruby on lol) – but I’m talking generally, the fancied runners are up there, whereas the rags are never in contention.
Can any experts, who watch Irish racing religiously (rather than just watch the odd few like me), confirm or dismiss what I’ve said above.
Cheers,
Mike
That’s cos Irish racing is as honest as the day is long and we don’t put up with any of the shennigans that you British scoundrels seem to have perfected, resulting in bringing our great sport into disrepute.
FOR SHAME, I say, FOR SHAME!
The phrase "Triers to the front, please" springs to mind.
That’s cos Irish racing is as honest as the day is long and we don’t put up with any of the shennigans that you British scoundrels seem to have perfected, resulting in bringing our great sport into disrepute.
Fair enough DB, but your handicapper definitely takes a ‘when in Rome’ approach then, doesn’t he?
There are a good few exceptions, Mikky, but in essence you are right. The situation with maiden hurdles and (especially) maiden chases is parlous.
I wonder if there has been a stewards into Concrete And Clay winning this afternoon. On its last run Timeform Perspective said: "ran a remarkable race given how far out of his ground he was for most of the way, and he should do a fair bit better than this in due course; he was plum last at halfway and still had more in front of him than behind him 2 out before finishing with a rattle to grab third."
Today, rushed up into lead 3 out and thrashed all the way home.
Thanks for the reply Pru (and others),
I should have mentioned, that when I wrote the above, it was with the big field hurdle (maiden/novice) and chase (maiden/beginner) races I had in mind.
Mike
Ballytrim was regularly given way too much to do last year and I was slightly concerned by the ride given to Wins Now on Sunday – ie. was midfield for much of the way. As has been mentioned on other forums he wasn’t given a hard time when his chance had gone, but he was only beaten 4 lengths and was midfield for much of the race so in essence his chance should never really have gone – he should have been up there with the pace, out of the way of any possible fallers and then the jockey (Niall Madden) could have done what was needed to win, or at least get within a neck or so of the winner.
I love watching Irish races and have been waiting for nearly 4 weeks for a horse to run……if only I could remember it’s name but will know it when i see it…..couldn’t believe the lack of effort from the jockey and the horse pulled his way into second when the winner had flown………wouldn’t go silly on it anyway because they are so shrewd the Irish you wouldn’t have a clue what they were up to…..however they are the best guys on earth to go racing with and you will never have a better day out.
I saw Jerry O’Dwyer on one like that at Kempton in October, silly so and so had it placed too at a huge price. Won next time out, couldn’t believe I got 9/1 about it
Due to the more restricted racing programme in Ireland, you get very big fields in maiden and novice races and they all tend to attract some good horses.
Therefore you get horses with a big range of abilities running in these races with completely different levels of expectation. Some are just going through a period of purgatory before getting a handicap mark, others are looking for a gentle introduction and a select few are hoping to win.
I saw Jerry O’Dwyer on one like that at Kempton in October, silly so and so had it placed too at a huge price. Won next time out, couldn’t believe I got 9/1 about it
I’ll probably get 5/4 or something with my luck… if I spotted it half of Ireland did as well…there not only shrewed they are great race readers and never miss a trick………half the time there races look so ordinary until they send them across to Cheltenham and horses we think are great get booted into touch and made to look moderate. You only need to think of how many Irish winners have you backed in the novice hurdles to realize how clever they are.
I think Istabraq is the only winner I ever backed in one of those…….not often the best on paper wins.
Give us a clue, Fist of Fury. I’ve watched nearly all the races in Ireland in the last 8 months and may be able to help.
It says a lot about the Irish and their attitude to horseracing that Tony Martin is considered a great trainer and a ‘legend’.
Give us a clue, Fist of Fury. I’ve watched nearly all the races in Ireland in the last 8 months and may be able to help.
Simon,
You wouldn’t have any news on Rathmore Castle would you, trained by Maureen Danagher. I had it down as a massive eye catcher on it’s first run of the season and it’s subsequently won twice.
I’ve backed it at 40’s and 33’s for the Ballymore Novice Hurdle (only small stakes however) but I’m a bit worried that the horse hasn’t been seen during the recent weeks, especially as there has been some quality racing in Ireland. It also hasn’t got any entries. Should I worry lol?
Mike
Michael, a quick recce in the cuttings section of Racing Post came up with the following:
RATHMORE CASTLE will not reappear until February following his win in the Grade 3 Monksfield Novice Hurdle at Navan last month. "He’s having a break, then he’ll go to Fairyhouse and Punchestown," said trainer Maureen Danagher.
I like the horse and think you’ve got a decent outsider there, though he’s probably something like a stone behind the best in that race to date.
Michael, a quick recce in the cuttings section of Racing Post came up with the following:
RATHMORE CASTLE will not reappear until February following his win in the Grade 3 Monksfield Novice Hurdle at Navan last month. "He’s having a break, then he’ll go to Fairyhouse and Punchestown," said trainer Maureen Danagher.
I like the horse and think you’ve got a decent outsider there, though he’s probably something like a stone behind the best in that race to date.
Thanks very much – much appreciated.
I think this horse could well improve, whether it can improve a stone I’m not sure
Thanks once again.
Mike
Give us a clue, Fist of Fury. I’ve watched nearly all the races in Ireland in the last 8 months and may be able to help.
Found him thanks…. Ford Of Wells, never won anything over hurdles so probably his best run to date and only his second run over fences….certainly wasn’t knocked about and looked liked a future winner to me if not aimed too high……….but don’t tell anyone
Give us a clue, Fist of Fury. I’ve watched nearly all the races in Ireland in the last 8 months and may be able to help.
Found him thanks…. Ford Of Wells, never won anything over hurdles so probably his best run to date and only his second run over fences….certainly wasn’t knocked about and looked liked a future winner to me if not aimed too high……….but don’t tell anyone
Don’t put too much on FoF – you might cause some massive price change… like from 6/1 t 6/4 in one go
Mike
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