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We have been over this all before, you’re right, and so far, I’ve been proved right by his 3rd in the Queen Anne. And since he won his maiden comfortably (what is probably the best maiden of the season) by 3 1/2 lengths, hard to say that he needed the run at Ascot.
Proc is better than Court M….hmm…debatable – Court M has improved so much with age, and would have been closer to Ad Valorem had interference not taken place.
Quote: from jackane24 on 10:31 pm on Sep. 19, 2006[br] Librettist needs it soft PLUS will be challenged for the lead<br>
Just to stick up for my old buddy, Librettist has won on (in order – source: Timeform):
Good<br>Good/Firm<br>Good<br>Good/Firm <br>Good/Firm<br>Soft<br>Good
So that’s one win on soft and appparently he now needs it soft.
His race comments for the races are:<br> <br>held up <br>Made all<br>Made all<br>Tracked Leaders<br>Made all<br>Tracked leader<br>Led afer 2f, made rest
I make that three racing off the pace and four setting it.
I still don’t think he’ll win on Saturday though :coolwink:
(Edited by Librettist at 7:37 am on Sep. 20, 2006)
The Coolmore boys must be very sure that GW is back to his best or they surely would not risk his stallion fee. According to Timeform he has 5lbs in hand of Librettist on his one good run this year but still has a couple of ponds to find on Proclamation who had an end of season rating of 130.
At 6/4 given his temperment doubts ( which got worse with age with Grandera) I think I shall just watch with interest.
The Coolmore boys must be very sure that GW is back to his best or they surely would not risk his stallion fee.
Couldnt it also be said that they badly need a win to justify whatever fee they have in mind?
George Washington could retire now and command a fee around 30,000-40,000 euro. A dual Group 1 winner at 2, and a Classic winner at three who also beat the Derby winner in his Classic. That do not badly need anything when if comes to justifying his price or fee.
They are definately taking a risk running him and it speaks volumes for the belief they have in the horse that they kept going with him at all.
Not going for the $250,000-$500,000 price bracket then Aidan. :biggrin:
I agree with you though, they are risking something.  Whether he retires now, or retires after winning at Ascot, his stud fee would be pretty much the same (I’d agree with €30,000ish).  If he runs badly on Saturday you can knock 10k off that straightaway. ÂÂÂ
I remember saying after the Guineas I wasn’t sure he would take much racing, and I think they have done well to persevere with him.
Quote: from Sal on 7:19 pm on Sep. 20, 2006[br]Not going for the $250,000-$500,000 price bracket then Aidan. :biggrin:
I agree with you though, they are risking something.  Whether he retires now, or retires after winning at Ascot, his stud fee would be pretty much the same (I’d agree with €30,000ish).  If he runs badly on Saturday you can knock 10k off that straightaway. ÂÂÂ
I remember saying after the Guineas I wasn’t sure he would take much racing, and I think they have done well to persevere with him.
Might just be deperate to try and win the race.
Thats my point, why are they "desperate" to win a race with a horse like GW that can already command a sizable stallion fee? Particularly when they have colts like Hurricane Run and Dylan Thomas also there to retire this year and a considerable increase in Galileo’s and Danehill Dancers fee.
Not sure if it’s in the papers but Spencer rides Court Masterpiece with Fortune claimed for Nannina.
I think George Washington will win the handsomely.
Quote: from trackside528 on 11:00 pm on Sep. 19, 2006[br]As Clive said Jack, saying Proclamation is not a true G1 horse is just flat-out wrong in my eyes… to be honest id rate him superior to court masterpiece…
Ive always thought that Proclamation was overated for winning not a great Sussex stakes with a good ride in beating a mare who was too slow getting into her finishign kick and an O Brien horse who would have hated the ground.
With that said, a years improvement, perhaps a little rain and I might be tempted to have a small bet.
SHL
Court Masterpiece only has to produce his form from Paris last year and he wins!The ground will be pretty much the same also and now he has proved he can win over a mile whereas last year there was a question mark about that, you put Gaudeamus in a nice little double with him and then fly to paris for a great weekend.You have been notified FM
Coolmore have already ditched King of Kings as not being good enough for their roster – he was packed off to Australia and then Japan at few years ago.
They do have quite a few Guineas winners still around though – Rocky, Golan, Footstepsinthesand, Black Minnaloushe, and I guess Sadler’s Wells still counts!
I agree with trackside about georges position in coolmore. They have plenty of danehills at stud there, incuding rock of gibraltar, choisir, mozart and the recently retired oratorio (to name only a few). You generally find that its the average group1 winners that find their way to stud quicker, i also find that michael tabor is more willing to keep a horse in training than magnier (high chaparral and hurricane run could have easily went to stud at 3 with their head held high). However, magnier kept hawkwing in training at 4 where a great lockinge win was acheived with him.
It is worth noting that although george washington was clearly prepped for the guineas, he was green as grass that day (and looked like he wanted the rail-as many highly strung horses do), nowhere near the form of his phoenix and national stakes wins.
I dont think we’ve seen George Washington do half of what he can do and neither does o’brien and magnier etc. (which probably explains why he wasnt retired after the irish guineas). With the more he drifts in the betting the more of a bet he becomes. Although there are some quite nice horses in the qe2 line up but none can match the potential of george, whether potential pays on the day is a different matter….
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