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I understand that Zarkava’s127 as a 3yo filly is nothing other than an indication that her performance was outstanding, IMO. As Bosranic wrote, if she can repeat that performance in foreign racecourses other than Longchamp as Ouija Board did, she could have a different dimension added to the rating.
If she should lose, I’m sure she should have a higher praise for the versatility. Not only in a win is revealed the true talent of an excellent horse, but also a defeat tells even more eloquently about it.
Taking into consideration the manner of his victory and the strength of the field he demolished, Peintre Celebre is still the most impressive Arc winner I’ve seen.
He was an easy 5L winner from Pilsudski, who came into the race having already won the Eclipse (where he beat Epsom Derby winner Benny The Dip and Bosra Sham) and the Irish Champion Stakes (beating Irish Derby winner Desert King).
Former Arc winner Helissio, who also beat Pilsudski 5L the year before, was back in sixth.
Swain finished back in seventh that day after beating Pilsudski in the King George – a race that also included Helissio and Singspiel.
PC achieved this from stall two.
Zarkava’s Arc form is impossible to criticise with Youmzain, who filled the same spot last year behind Dylan Thomas, taking second.
The only negative would be Duke Of Marmalade, who failed to give his running. It’s quite possible that his stamina was flattered in the King George. He looked to respond to Papal Bull’s challenge, but perhaps Michael Stoute’s horse, who did appear to run to the line in my opinion, did quit once he hit the front.
I consider this a negative because The Duke was the only other ‘exceptional’ horse in the race, boasting an unbeaten season with five Group One races to his name.
Zarkava beat a strong field, but do they compare to the likes of Pilsudski, Swain and Helissio? Von Baden heroine, Borgia, dual Irish Leger winner, Oscar Schindlar and Royal Ascot winner Predappio (who ran Bosra Sham close that season) were also in the line-up.
Personally, I don’t think you can compare the brilliant Zarkava to the majestic Peintre Celebre.
I’d also place her behind Hurricane Run, who defeated the likes of Motivator, Bago, Pride, Shawanda and Shirocco.
Good reasoning from Reet and today’s comments in the RP from the handicapper who rated her 127, effectively that with the 3lb fillies allowance he’s rated her the best horse in the world with Curlin, put the rating in perspective.
Just for the record I have Zarkava rated 128+ which may seem low but I am extremely conservative and I can’t remember ever rating a horse 130. I tend to use the poorer horses in races as a yardstick if they are hopelessly outclassed I can’t see the point in raising them 5 or 10lbs (example) to "fit in" with what an "expected G1" rating should be. That approach tends to keep ratings relatively low but I find it more accurate.
Thats just me though and each to their own.
A report in the RP suggests Zarkava will not race again though a final decision has yet to be made. Trainer says “We will make a decision in four or five days because it is a big decision to make. We have to respect the filly and there is not much left for her to do. You can’t ask them to do too much in their lives.”
I expected her to not run again this season and it is obviously up to them but it will be disappointing if she is retired as horses of this calibre don’t come along that often. She has only had 7 starts and no stud fees issues though perhaps the owner has been disappointed with Darjina. Anyway looks like we have seen the last of her.
Taking into consideration the manner of his victory and the strength of the field he demolished, Peintre Celebre is still the most impressive Arc winner I’ve seen.
He was an easy 5L winner from Pilsudski, who came into the race having already won the Eclipse (where he beat Epsom Derby winner Benny The Dip and Bosra Sham) and the Irish Champion Stakes (beating Irish Derby winner Desert King).
Interesting to note that Timeform rate Peintre Celebre 8lbs inferior to their top rated ‘ 65 Arc winner, Sea – Bird II .
Peintre Celebre was very impressive that day and posted a fast time. He did though, benefit from the best ground conditions that any Arc field has ever encountered.
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And here the foto for 3rd place in the Arc (It’s Gino in front of Soldier of Fortune):
Interesting to note that Timeform rate Peintre Celebre 8lbs inferior to their top rated ‘ 65 Arc winner, Sea – Bird II.
Considering a couple of figures dished out at around that time, I have a suspicion that the Timeform handicappers were on some pretty intense gear during the mid-60’s (although Sea Bird is most probably the best Arc winner there has been).
Interesting to note that Timeform rate Peintre Celebre 8lbs inferior to their top rated ‘ 65 Arc winner, Sea – Bird II.
Considering a couple of figures dished out at around that time, I have a suspicion that the Timeform handicappers were on some pretty intense gear during the mid-60’s (although Sea Bird is most probably the best Arc winner there has been).
Phil Bull, on intense gear. Why, the very thought. Nope, not having it.
Great man in my opinion.Jim McGrath, who wasn’t working for Timeform at the time happens to agree with Sea-Bird’s rating. So, maybe he is on the same intense gear
… or maybe they just recognise what a remarkable and immensely talented animal old SB was ! 
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My comment does look a bit harsh on Sea Bird. I haven’t seen many of his runs. The intended message was that given some other ratings handed out by Timeform at around the same time, forgive my lack of unquestioning loyalty to his mark of 145.
Corm
As Youmzain beat the 125 (OR) rated SOF by 0.5l, with the 124 rated Vision D’Etat a further length away in 5th, you couldn’t really rate Y much more than 127?
It’s Gino and Ask obviously ran the races of their lives, but that would put DOM running to 123. much in line with his previous form on anything but fast ground, and Getaway (OR 126) running to about 121, which wouldn’t be far off considering his nightmare passage.
All that would leave Zarkava on a rating of about 130; the mark of a high class filly with the potential for further improvement, but some way short of Timeform’s 133, or the ‘superstar’ so many already seem to have her.I believe they rated the performance 131 and stuck an extra 2lb on because of the ease of her victory.
They could have gone a second quicker and I beileve she still would have won by two lengths.
Taking into consideration the manner of his victory and the strength of the field he demolished, Peintre Celebre is still the most impressive Arc winner I’ve seen.
He was an easy 5L winner from Pilsudski, who came into the race having already won the Eclipse (where he beat Epsom Derby winner Benny The Dip and Bosra Sham) and the Irish Champion Stakes (beating Irish Derby winner Desert King).
Interesting to note that Timeform rate Peintre Celebre 8lbs inferior to their top rated ‘ 65 Arc winner, Sea – Bird II .
Peintre Celebre was very impressive that day and posted a fast time. He did though, benefit from the best ground conditions that any Arc field has ever encountered.
Considering I’m only 26, it would be impossible for me to comment on Seabird.
Peintre Celebre is the best Arc winner (since 1992) I’ve seen, taking into consideration his style of victory and those he beat. I’m not a huge fan of ratings or time, but if he recorded a fast time that’s another plus.
To be more accurate, I wouldn’t consider Zarkava to be the best Arc winner in the last 10 – 15 years, let alone put her on a pedestal with the likes of Dancing Brave.
In many big, high-class fields like the Arc, the majority of runners are good horses, a few very good ones and, if we’re lucky, a couple of exceptional talents.
When Peintre Celebre won, he beat three exceptional talents – Pilsudski, Helissio and Swain. Between them, they won fifteen Group Ones all over the world. Pilsudski’s form also ties in with the likes of Singspiel and Bosra Sham.
As previously stated, I find it very difficult to place her above Ouija Board, perhaps even Bosra Sham, when assessing her merit among the best fillies in recent years. If she sets foot on a racecourse next season, then I have no doubt she has the ability to surpass them both.
What rating do you have for Ouija Board and Bosra Sham. When you say "even" Bosra Sham it makes you sound as though you rate OB higher than BS.
Zarkava is superior (much) to OB but below BS in my opinion.
Sorry I disappeared guys but right after the Arc I left for the beach in Hua Hin to celebrate
hence the dark glasses. Got pissed as a fart I guess I was slightly bullish (understatement of the centuary) about her chances I just hope a few of you got stuck in.
I honestly didn’t expect her jockey to take the passage he did. I had visons of Sea Bird II’s Derby win with her coming round the outside of the field. Was I wrong or what?
That aside there was never a doubt in my mind she was going to win especially when her jockey took a pull about 4 out when some others were begining to try and kick for home. On better ground, heaven only knows, how much easier would it have been?
I likened her to Sea Bird in a previous post but I really don’t know if she is the best filly I have seen, that’s a hard call for anyone to make on the flat.
I thought the colts were a pretty ordinary lot and and still do. That makes it difficult for me to say she is the best ever but it never made it difficult for me to back her against that opposition. DOM was disaapointing but he really hasn’t beat much IMO albeit he’s bettter than his placing in the Arc suggested.
We/you really have to stop following these bookies who ignore form SOF/YOUZ (well done Bullwark for sticking to your guns). They deliberatly shorten up O’Brien’s depsite what the form book says time and time again.
However back to the filly. As I said she was the best bet of the season.
She has given me the biggest single win ever and one of the biggest racing thrills of my life by winning the Arc. Such a joy to watch.
So I have bought a nice piece of land in Hua Hin on which I am going to build a nice house withe the name "ZARKAVA" somewhere near front door.
Hopefully Binoclular will put a roof on it
Joking aside, no more bets for me until the jumps get going and hopefully we can all get on a few like her over the coming months.
Well done girl-absolutely effin brilliant…sorry Corm but I too happy not to curse a little
What rating do you have for Ouija Board and Bosra Sham. When you say "even" Bosra Sham it makes you sound as though you rate OB higher than BS.
Zarkava is superior (much) to OB but below BS in my opinion.
Like I said, I’m not a big fan of ratings and don’t compile my own. I enjoy reading opinion on ratings and they are great for the purpose of debating, but they’re not for me.
As my username suggests, I was a huge fan of Bosra Sham and she’s a favourite of mine.
However, actions speak louder than words (or ratings) and Ouija Board enjoyed far greater success than Bosra Sham.
You can only judge a horse on what they achieve and OB achieved more than BS.
If you want my opinion on pure ability, Bosra Sham was a superior talent and, if given the opportunity, she could have been one of the true greats and up there with the very best.
Sadly, her well documented foot problem meant we never got to see the very best of her. It’s incredible to think she still had the ability to win a classic on ‘three legs’. You could put her Dubai Champion Stakes win over Halling, who hadn’t been beaten on turf in two years, right up their with any single piece of form Ouija Board or Zarkava (has) ever produced.
Of course, we all remember her Royal Ascot win. Granted, the Prince Of Wales was only a Group 2 at the time, but that was still the most impressive performance from any high class filly I’ve ever seen.
Based on achievement alone, I’d rate Ouija Board higher than Bosra Sham and Zarkava. It’s a tough call between Bosra Sham and Zarkava on ability.
Due to her form over any distance between eight and twelve furlongs (she beat Goldikova over a mile, who subsequently beat Paco’s Boy and Henrythenavigator) I’d say Zarkava is the best filly I’ve seen in the last 10 -15 years.
I couldn’t agree or disagree with any of that. OB was a fantastic filly as was Pebbles, Allex France etc. Way too difficult to say which was best IMO.
Zarkava is today’s heroine and she certainly won like a supreme champion but what did she beat? Damned if I know.
Over the Jumps you can say Arkle was best and one in a million race fans will argue with you. Say OB was the best filly ever and they will come out of every hole imaginable to argue with you.
Perhaps Sea Bird II because of his amazing ability to travel with such ease stands out but as for the rest, I wouldn’t know where to start.
Great man in my opinion.
hence the dark glasses. Got pissed as a fart 
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