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Agree with almost all your post HGM except when it comes to Carlton House. It may be that he is going to improve a lot on what he has done so far but he will have to won’t he? Put it this way – if Treasure Beach were running in this race what price would he be? Not 4-1 I bet and yet he beat CH fair and square twice last year.
Joni,I have to say I’m somewhat surprised by your remarks,almost dissapointed actually! ‘Treasure Beach’ was a pretty decent 3yo but he never had anywhere near the scope for improvemnet
Carlton House
has as being an even better 4yo,I rate this fellow and always looked forward to him running this year,I dont fear this ‘So You Think’ in the slightest.In my world ‘Carlton House’ should be 2/1 fav!
It’s just an opinion Gord I could well be wrong as he may well be a better 4 year old. Treasure Beach was indeed a "decent" horse last year but an official rating of 116 would suggest he was only that. I didnt like the way CH pulled at Sandown and I think he has plenty to prove for a 7-2/4 shot against a couple of proper Group 1 horses with proven better form.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Pom Snobby arrogance? No need for racist comments my friend you Aussies spend your entire lives having a go at Poms and Abo’s yet no one has a go at you lot.
That has to tell you something about yourselves as a nation……like arrogance is something you lead the field in.
Black Caviar is coming to Ascot because it’s one of the greatest show pieces on the planet and the more people whose see her run the better for her connections, make no mistake about that.
You don’t have the races in Australia to attract the likes of Frankel like Meydan you try to buy prestige with prize money and fail.
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That is just a fact of life that does not mean we are arrogantWell said my "Anggrit" friend.
Australians are the only people who don’t see the word "pom" as racist. According to Wikipedia it’s even been passed by their advertising authority as recently as 2006 as "no longer offensive". (As Andyod would say "bullshit"). It is always used in a derogatory manner, therefore must be "offensive". Of course, if we British complain about absolutely anything we are then described as "whinging poms". Convenient or what?However, I do hope Black Caviar wins on Saturday (even if I’ve backed the French horse each way). Love to see brilliant racehorses perform wherever they come from.
Value Is EverythingI doubt either Frankel or Black Caviar have any concept of nationality. I think the admiration of brilliant horses by racing fans and horse lovers transcends petty parochial squabbles.
Not meaning to get involved in the spat but are you seriously offended by the word ‘pomm’? I must admit I see it personally as more a sort of lopsided term of endearment
rather than as something truly offensive. No worse than us calling them Aussies really.…I’m pretty new to the racing forum but I have a number of other interests and it seems no matter what the topic all internet forums seem to end up in daft arguments.
My opinion on Carlton House remains the same, but for me he’s never been a price that has tempted me to back him. I probably would have lived with 7/1-8/1 EW, but I don’t think he was ever that price & is not likely to be now.
I’d agree that So You Think & Carlton House are probably too short, & imo Cirrus des Aigles is only fairly priced at best.
You could argue the overpriced horse in the race at the moment is Planteur at 12/1. His form is rock solid, and his 2 runs since joining M.Botti have probably been his best, they put him right there with SYT & CdA.
Reliable Man looks to represent good value to me. Should relish the conditions and I’m a firm believer that class is permanent.
Can’t believe the vitriol against anyone dare questioning Frankel. Wow some of you really love this horse don’t you!
Pretty piss poor form pulling the racist card but there you go that’s the internet for you no shortage of puffy chest online warriors.
I’d have thought posting links to certain race videos of interest would count as a positive and worthwhile contribution?
Never let facts get in the way of a good online sledge!
Likewise in opposite I hope Ortensia SYT and Black Caviar all get the job done over there. Hope Frankel flys too, because it is true horses know nothing about nationalities. I own/race 7 horses personally and can appreciate a good horse no matter where they are from – similar to most of us – but not all!
Cheers and Go the Aussies!!!
Reckon I could speak for most saying we don’t like pom snobby arrogance either.
See it’s like this – you will let slide all manner of snide remarks about SYT, cart horse, one paced, etc – but look the fk out if anyone says ANYTHING even remotely against your superhero frankel, then we are disrespectful chip on shoulder should be banned etc.
In short I think you’re an arrogant hypocrite.
Moody nailed it when he said how ridiculous it was that BC had to travel half way around the world to race against INFERIOR horses in order to prove her greatness. Mate she has nothing to prove and everything to lose by doing this. You guys should be writing handwritten letters thanking the owners for bringing her there – you should be honoured by her mere presence. And it’s all because of wank prestige.
Does Frankel have to come to Australia – home to some of the best milers in the world – in order to prove he is the best?
Don’t tell me – you’re scoffing at that right?
And yet, here we are, Black Caviar in England. If she has nothing to prove, and they believe such, why is she he? You can quote rhetoric nonsense all you want, but if the owners were truely at ease with themselves, and truely believed the nonsense they spout, they she wouldn’t be here.
Austrialian racing has some great horses, but whether you like or not, British horse racing has greater percieved importance. Deal with it.
Frankel doesn’t have to go to Australia, and he won’t. Connections have no burning desire to prove something, because they don’t have to. Clearly the same cannot be said about BC and her connections, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
Frankel doesn’t have to go to Australia, and he won’t. Connections have no burning desire to prove something, because they don’t have to. Clearly the same cannot be said about BC and her connections, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
If they want to claim Frankel as the greatest horse on Earth, then they have to prove it. Staying at a mile beating the same horses is not spectacular, despite what Mike Cattermole hyping his every appearance.
The Frankel v Black Caviar talk was always nonsense as the latter was never going to step up to a mile.
If racing wants it’s own summer spectacular to measure against the Euros and the Olympics, then it will have to create one, not just write headlines without much substance to the story beneath.
So many people in racing claim they have a desire to see an increase in racing’s quality and exposure, and yet so little is done about it.
Frankel doesn’t have to go to Australia, and he won’t. Connections have no burning desire to prove something, because they don’t have to. Clearly the same cannot be said about BC and her connections, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
If they want to claim Frankel as the greatest horse on Earth, then they have to prove it. Staying at a mile beating the same horses is not spectacular, despite what Mike Cattermole hyping his every appearance.
The Frankel v Black Caviar talk was always nonsense as the latter was never going to step up to a mile.
If racing wants it’s own summer spectacular to measure against the Euros and the Olympics, then it will have to create one, not just write headlines without much substance to the story beneath.
So many people in racing claim they have a desire to see an increase in racing’s quality and exposure, and yet so little is done about it.
The ratings prove Frankel is the best horse currently in training. This is a relatively cemented idea worldwide.
Claiming Frankel is the greatest race horse ever is nonsense, because it is impossible to prove. I honestly don’t care if Frankel is seen as the greatest race horse ever. He’s the best i have ever seen, and that is that matters to me. It’s pointless speculating where he resides in an all time list, since nobody has any justified and legitimate evidence outside of their own subjective views on who is the greatest.
Racing can’t make anything comparative to the olympics or the Euros, publically wise. Impossible. What we can do is enjoy what we have (Frankel), rather than endlessly pontificating about where he lies amongst other great horses (Many who i’ve never seen due to age), or saying that what he has achieved so far doesn’t mean that much unless he steps up (also total nonsense).
Frankel stepping up in trip doesn’t increase the exposure of racing. You must be very out of touch with society and its perceptions if you believe that. If you want to increase racing’s popularity (I don’t understand the insecurity of many fans on this site about racing’s popularity), you aren’t going to do it through one horse.
Staying at a mile and beating the same horses may not be adventerous, but it certainly is spectacular. If you don’t enjoy watching Frankel at a mile, then frankly, you’re impossible to please. Why do racing fans moan so very much, instead of simply enjoying the excellent racing? I’d like to see Frankel race at a longer trip, but if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen, and it doesn’t detract from the joy i have gained from his career so far. I’d also say that beating a weak crop of Mile and quarter horses doesn’t neccessairly add to his legacy or peak ability/form. But of course many are far too illogical to see this.
My racing knowledge is nowhere near as extensive as many on this forum, but my god, some of the irrational, incoherent ramblings and the insecurities i see on this forum are outstanding. Enjoy the ******* racing instead of bitching and moaning about some of the most inane things.
Frankel doesn’t have to go to Australia, and he won’t. Connections have no burning desire to prove something, because they don’t have to. Clearly the same cannot be said about BC and her connections, otherwise they wouldn’t be here.
If they want to claim Frankel as the greatest horse on Earth, then they have to prove it. Staying at a mile beating the same horses is not spectacular, despite what Mike Cattermole hyping his every appearance.
The Frankel v Black Caviar talk was always nonsense as the latter was never going to step up to a mile.
If racing wants it’s own summer spectacular to measure against the Euros and the Olympics, then it will have to create one, not just write headlines without much substance to the story beneath.
So many people in racing claim they have a desire to see an increase in racing’s quality and exposure, and yet so little is done about it.
The ratings prove Frankel is the best horse currently in training. This is a relatively cemented idea worldwide.
Claiming Frankel is the greatest race horse ever is nonsense, because it is impossible to prove. I honestly don’t care if Frankel is seen as the greatest race horse ever. He’s the best i have ever seen, and that is that matters to me. It’s pointless speculating where he resides in an all time list, since nobody has any justified and legitimate evidence outside of their own subjective views on who is the greatest.
Racing can’t make anything comparative to the olympics or the Euros, publically wise. Impossible. What we can do is enjoy what we have (Frankel), rather than endlessly pontificating about where he lies amongst other great horses (Many who i’ve never seen due to age), or saying that what he has achieved so far doesn’t mean that much unless he steps up (also total nonsense).
Frankel stepping up in trip doesn’t increase the exposure of racing. You must be very out of touch with society and its perceptions if you believe that. If you want to increase racing’s popularity (I don’t understand the insecurity of many fans on this site about racing’s popularity), you aren’t going to do it through one horse.
Staying at a mile and beating the same horses may not be adventerous, but it certainly is spectacular. If you don’t enjoy watching Frankel at a mile, then frankly, you’re impossible to please. Why do racing fans moan so very much, instead of simply enjoying the excellent racing?
Being critical of one aspect doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy racing.
I want the sport to be better.
Frankel stepping up in trip and racing against Camelot or So You Think, for instance, or going abroad, does increase racing’s exposure. Just as English football clubs playing abroad increases footballs exposure. If the same sides stayed in their country and played against the same dozen other clubs every year, football would not be the biggest sport on the planet.
Being critical of one aspect doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy racing.
I want the sport to be better.
Frankel stepping up in trip and racing against Camelot or So You Think, for instance, or going abroad, does increase racing’s exposure. Just as English football clubs playing abroad increases footballs exposure. If the same sides stayed in their country and played against the same dozen other clubs every year, football would not be the biggest sport on the planet.
No it does not. You must live in fairy land if you think a match would have any significant increase in the sports popularity. Anyone who doesn’t really follow racing doesn’t know who Camelot or Frankel are. None of my friends follow horse racing, and certainly a match between Frankel and Camelot would not change that. To change the perceptions of horse racing, and increase it’s popularity, you are going to have to do alot more than simply race two high end horses against each other. The "problems" are grass root. You don’t fix something by manufacturing two elites of the sport to meet, because that doesn’t alter the fundamental issues at the the grass root of the sport.
Football is the biggest sport on the planet because it appeals to everbody. It’s participation amongst youth is huge, it advertises itself well and is just a much much much bigger sport. Horse racing isn’t remotely comparative, and one horse race between two horses most people don’t even know won’t change that. Those English clubs playing abroad already had very large domestic support, and are playing clubs from another nations, with shockingly, have large domestic support.
You’re being very unrealistic and naive if you actually believe in what you saying.
Being critical of one aspect doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy racing.
I want the sport to be better.
Frankel stepping up in trip and racing against Camelot or So You Think, for instance, or going abroad, does increase racing’s exposure. Just as English football clubs playing abroad increases footballs exposure. If the same sides stayed in their country and played against the same dozen other clubs every year, football would not be the biggest sport on the planet.
No it does not. You must live in fairy land if you think a match would have any significant increase in the sports popularity. Anyone who doesn’t really follow racing doesn’t know who Camelot or Frankel are. None of my friends follow horse racing, and certainly a match between Frankel and Camelot would not change that. To change the perceptions of horse racing, and increase it’s popularity, you are going to have to do alot more than simply race two high end horses against each other. The "problems" are grass root. You don’t fix something by manufacturing two elites of the sport to meet, because that doesn’t alter the fundamental issues at the the grass root of the sport.
Football is the biggest sport on the planet because it appeals to everbody. It’s participation amongst youth is huge, it advertises itself well and is just a much much much bigger sport. Horse racing isn’t remotely comparative, and one horse race between two horses most people don’t even know won’t change that. Those English clubs playing abroad already had very large domestic support, and are playing clubs from another nations, with shockingly, have large domestic support.
You’re being very unrealistic and naive if you actually believe in what you saying.
Generalisation and misrepresentation – where did i say that the one horse race would bring racing to the level of football in terms of recognition ?
Small steps, progress.
Might help if you read posts properly and don’t misrepresent others when having a discussion and dismissing an opinion.
And you can’t be very unrealistic.
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