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It made me think yesterday that those that cause wars (Blair and Straw in our day) are the ones responsible for these massive tragedies. Wars are always a result of ulterior motives, lies and profiteering .. it’s the people who get killed, not the war-mongers.
Have just watched a recording of this mornings events – how moving.
I don’t think I’ll ever forget the one who tried to lay the wreath himself – what a great guy?
Yes werern’t they all, and that they each represented one of the three armed forces?
Watched a documentary taped from the weekend about the Hitler/Stalin pact at the beginning of WW2 and the consequences for Poland, and just seemed to illustrate that they were both totally insane and why didn’t anyone stop them before they got so far? A Russian ‘soldier’ involved in the massacre of some 22,000 Polish officers, each shot in the back of the head, speaking in 1991, spoke of the emotional turmoil to his comrades involved in the executions………yes I know the argument is that they were following orders, but it was only 60 years ago? And obvioulsy that was just one example from the war. Makes it very hard to have any faith in humanity at all. Just total insanity.
The allies (of which stalin was at one time) had plenty time, and oportunity, to step in to quell German ambitions well before the GermanRusso pact was signed.
They instead did nothing, primarily trying to avoid going to war with Germany.
I saw a programme years ago about the Milgram Experiment and realised that the majority of us, whatever our morals would be capable of doing terrible things to our fellow man under certain circumstances.
A Russian ‘soldier’ involved in the massacre of some 22,000 Polish officers, each shot in the back of the head, speaking in 1991, spoke of the emotional turmoil to his comrades involved in the executions………yes I know the argument is that they were following orders, but it was only 60 years ago? And obvioulsy that was just one example from the war. Makes it very hard to have any faith in humanity at all. Just total insanity.
I’d read about this before, am pretty sure that historically the russians absolutely hate the polish, Think I read that they took most of them out to the Baltic Sea on ships and threw them in Chained together, so that one pulls the other down and so forth.
Hitlers biggest ever mistake was turning on Stalin, as he couldn’t fight the Russians and defend against the Allies (although in theory stalin was part of the big three). Stalin’s biggest mistake was that he killed almost the entire command in his army when he seized power as to him they all represented a threat to his leadership, and to prevent any coups they were rounded up and executed. This then left him with serious problems when having to fight a war against a well drilled german army.
Stalin won his war against hitler because he just didnt care about his people, he would send huge numbers to fight the better trained and equipped germans, and when the russians retreated they burnt everything, so as to put pressure on the stretched german logistics. I watched a doumentary which states that many russians and their troops resorted to cannibalism in world war 2 due to the lack of food.
No soldier in Stalins Army would dare question an order, and I would imagine that the order to kill the polish officers was sent from stalin himself.
I also read somewhere that many of the british servicemen who were held by the germans in areas that were taken by the Russians (before the allies got there) never made it back, and are believed to have died in the Gulags.
Hitler and Stalin are without doubt the two most evil men that the world has ever seen, although Hitler actually surrounded himself with people equally as evil as himself.
A Russian ‘soldier’ involved in the massacre of some 22,000 Polish officers, each shot in the back of the head, speaking in 1991, spoke of the emotional turmoil to his comrades involved in the executions………yes I know the argument is that they were following orders, but it was only 60 years ago? And obvioulsy that was just one example from the war. Makes it very hard to have any faith in humanity at all. Just total insanity.
I’d read about this before, am pretty sure that historically the russians absolutely hate the polish
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Yes at one point in the documentary it said this was because of a conflict in the 1920s when the Polish had inflicted a heavy defeat on the Russians. It also said that Hitler planned all along to invade Russia and he was just keeping Stalin on side until he defeated the British. When he realised that wasn’t happening, he decided he had to move against the eastern front.
I know the Allies were well aware of what was going on, or at least the majority of what was going on, long before war started, but as today so called civilised countries choose to do nothing, or admit to nothing going on, down to whatever circumstances they use as a reason/excuse not to.
This drama documentary is continuing on Sunday I think and worth watching if interested.I’d read about this before, am pretty sure that historically the russians absolutely hate the polish
A bit of a simplistic outlook. Poland had a very chequred history, streching back hundreds of years. Due to its leaders’ infighting, both Russia and Germany, amongst others, had found it easy to repeatedly ‘pinch’ Polish land. Both ultimately considered Poland to be ‘rogue’.Hitlers biggest ever mistake was turning on Stalin, as he couldn’t fight the Russians and defend against the Allies (although in theory stalin was part of the big three).
Something that the German Military certainly agreed with, looking back at the ill fated attempts of Napolean. Most of the military were horified at the prospect of invading Russia. Heinz Gurderian spelled this out in his miliary work Actung : Panzer!Stalin’s biggest mistake was that he killed almost the entire command in his army when he seized power as to him they all represented a threat to his leadership, and to prevent any coups they were rounded up and executed.
Stalins military purges did not occur until mid-late 1930’s, he seized power in the 1920’s, although itis true to state that ethnic cleasing of Russia had been going on for years (eg peasants)Stalin won his war against hitler because he just didnt care about his people, he would send huge numbers to fight the better trained and equipped germans, and when the russians retreated they burnt everything, so as to put pressure on the stretched german logistics.
The famous ‘scortched earth’ policy. Although it should also be mentioned that the Russians were at this time heavily dependant on lent military equipment from Britain,and in particular America.Yes at one point in the documentary it said this was because of a conflict in the 1920s when the Polish had inflicted a heavy defeat on the Russians.
The Treaty of Versialle did not accurately define the borders of Poland, the Poles took the oportunity to try to expand, which was rebuffed by the Russians. Both sides apparently claimed victory. Howver, the treaty of Versaille did implement the Poish Coridor, effectively cutting of part of Germany from Germany Itself. This was possibly the most hated part of the treaty as far as the Germans were concered, and a major factor in the onset of WW2.It also said that Hitler planned all along to invade Russia and he was just keeping Stalin on side until he defeated the British.
Undoubtedly. Other than France (Germany’s historical enemy) the war in the West was merely a side show to the coing war in the East, hence the German expresson Leibensraum Ost (spelling?) – Living Room in the East. Hitler at that time consiered that Britain had been effectively silienced, something which was, as that time, fundamentaly, true.I suppose I should get out more!
Most of what you read about the last war is made up.
One of my kids came home from school and said they had been learning about the holocaust .. they had been watching a film with Rutger Hauer in it.
We don’t learn lessons from history. The Nazis argued successfully at Nurenburg that democracy hadn’t worked in Germany and that dictatorship was the only option. They argued so well in fact they were not allowed to speak before they were murdered. The US insisted that to have long term stability states should be democratic and prosperous. IMO this has proved to be true .. it makes you wonder why the EU gestapo can’t just accept democratic decision making, when totalitarianism has caused so much misery and suffering.
If Hitler had been a bit smarter he would have set up the Common Market.
One of my kids came home from school and said they had been learning about the holocaust .. they had been watching a film with Rutger Hauer in it.
Could be "Escape From Sobibor" which is a harrowing film (although admittedly only saw it once about 20 years ago) and probably more so the book, especially, much more so than schindlers list. They actually farmed people there, the only jews kept alive there were those that were processing the bodies of the rest, collecting gold teeth and making lamp shades out of skin etc. Horrible.
PS good post Alchemist.
One of my kids came home from school and said they had been learning about the holocaust .. they had been watching a film with Rutger Hauer in it.
Could be "Escape From Sobibor" which is a harrowing film (although admittedly only saw it once about 20 years ago) and probably more so the book, especially, much more so than schindlers list. They actually farmed people there, the only jews kept alive there were those that were processing the bodies of the rest, collecting gold teeth and making lamp shades out of skin etc. Horrible.
PS good post Alchemist.
I think there should be some universal law that every national leader should be made to vist Yad Vashem in Jerusalem – the Holocaust Memorial.
I defy anyone to go there and not be moved to tears – the first time I went I had to force myself to complete the visit.
Most of what you read about the last war is made up
Ummm, thats interesting Dave. Care to expand?The Nazis argued successfully at Nurenburg that democracy hadn’t worked in Germany and that dictatorship was the only option
With very good reason too, if you look at the sham that was the Weimar rebublic.They argued so well in fact they were not allowed to speak before they were murdered.
Do you mean at the trial or at the hangmans noose? In the court room, some historians argue that the nuremburg trials were a complete farce.[
A friend of mine, some years ago, after suffering a substantial personal loss decided to dedicate his life to Jesus. He got in tow with one of those born again type of Christian cults, that are Zionist evangelicals. He’s actually departed some way from reality now and says words like ‘amazing’ and wonderful’ quite a lot, I think you get the picture. His brain is a bit like a sponge.
Anyway, a couple of years ago, this lost soul decided that it was about time that he should visit Auschwitz and see what it was all about.
That led me to think about what he really knew about what went on there and how well informed he was. Obviously his own slant on what had happened and what he was actually seeing would be different to a normal person. It turned out after a long conversation that he was none the wiser about what went on at Auschwitz than he had been before he went. All he did when visiting the place was upset himself.
So, what bit was he missing?
People were sent to Auschwitz to be killed, of that there is no doubt. But that wasn’t the main reason. They were sent to the middle of Poland to be next the coal mines and chemical factories that were to be built there, out of range of the Allied bombers. He didn’t know this .. it’s not in the history books. The horror of all the of the brutality has overshadowed the greater evil of industrialisation and the use of slave labour.
This is a picture of the IG Farben Factory at Auschwitz .. in the boxed section labelled Auschwitz III is one of the concentration camps, of which there were about 40. Berchenau being the death camp.
[b:3e16j1hf]Factory 1[/url:3e16j1hf][/b:3e16j1hf]
[b:3e16j1hf]Factory 2[/url:3e16j1hf][/b:3e16j1hf]
To put a scale on the amount of industry here, they reckon that around 88,000 slaves worked in the mines and factories in this area. These factories are still there and they are off-limits to visitors. The whole reason why this situation developed in Poland has been lost in the wash somehow.
I don’t know .. there seems to be a deliberate attempt to mislead people and change the perception of what actually happened there.
Whilst I completely understand the importance and significance of wearing a poppy, I think the FA (and most of the people moaning) are just as bad as FIFA regarding the ruling that the England national team is not allowed to wear a poppy emblem on Saturday.
The England national team have played a football match within a few days of Remembrence Day for each of the last EIGHT years. Why weren’t the FA campaigning to have a poppy on the England shirts last year, or the year before, or the year before etc?
Is it because of the fact that remembering our fallen heroes, and supporting our troops, has become fashionable that the FA now want our footballers to wear a poppy emblem on their shirt?
For the record I think FIFA’s decision is ridiculous, but I find the FA’s stance on this ridiculous also. They weren’t bothered about wearing a poppy for the last eight years, so why now?
A cynic might suggest the FA are more concerned with sales of replica shirts. Armistice Day should be a national holiday.
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