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I assume nothing, Grimes. If there is a God/Creator, and I find myself prostrate before him on Judgement Day, I will simply appeal to His alleged good nature, admit that I got it wrong, and ask for forgiveness.
I will offer the contradictory nature of His doctrine (that laid down in the Bible
and
preached from the pulpit) as evidence for my confusion. If He is as reasonable and compassionate as everyone suggests, I reckon I’m about a 4/9 chance to get into Heaven.
The down-side is that He frowns upon my Earthly lack of wisdom, and condemns me to a life of eternal pain and suffering because of it. But such a course of action would surely go against the grain of His own teaching, and pretty-much render Him no more than a fickle tyrant, wouldn’t it?
No good you going to heaven Grassy. You wouldn`t know anyone there mate.
Wouldn’t the breakdown of the family unit and mass ownership of cars be a more likely cause of social ills than a drift away from Christianity?
People now work longer hours further from home (thanks to the car,) so they don’t socialise with their neighbours as they did in years gone by as they were people they worked with. Their children are mostly raised by paid childminders and nurseries rather than the people who created them.
Families break down and through divorce children are split from their parents/grandparents, looked after partly by a procession of step-parents and their remaining parent at the weekends, in nursery or school for the rest of the time.
Plonked in front of the TV and the internet 24/7 (like me!) it’s no wonder youngsters end up growing up warped. Bombarded by daily tabloid propaganda that they are fatter, stupider and more criminal compared to previous generations, no wonder they can’t be bothered to get out of bed.
Seven Towers, the family as the fundamental unit of society is an axiom of Christianity, indeed, I suspect it was for pre-Christian society, but today, many militant atheists do not recognise it as such. A homosexual couple is as valid a unit of society to them as a traditional couple of birth parents.
There is, however, and always has been, an informal atheism, espoused de facto by people who claim to be believers, Christians, religious, and so on. And it is these people who are responsible for most people working ever longer hours for less and less pay in real terms.
Conservatives claim to be the party of the family, of Christian family values, etc, and while some are, many are in fact worshippers of Mammon, and are responsible for that sorry situation. Of course, they justify it by claiming all sorts of economic necessities facing the country.
On the other hand, the formal atheists of the left, also attack the family in a number of ways, one of which is by a distorted feminism, where the woman (not necessarily married – another relative safeguard of the family) feels entitled to pursue her career, as you mention, hiring child-minders, instead of staying at home, at least while they are young.
But that kind of feminisim has been a double-edged sword, removing from women the relative formal contractual commitment, albeit based on the love for each other duly expressed, which a traditional Christian marriage gives. Notice, I qualify most of these points with the word ‘relatively’, because there are always plenty of exceptions.
Still, it would be wrong to see Christians as necessarily better people than honest non-believers, as the Church is a church of sinners, and not all, I need hardly point out, trying to be saints. The point I have been making from the start here is, that while an individual, formal non-believer may be a good, caring person in God’s eyes, it is above all society at large which has suffered most from the removal from its institutions, most notably its schools, of a formal, overarching ethos of Christianity.
The relatively hermetic life led by many children today, would, I suspect, be partly due to the wanton, gratuitous violence that they face in their schools and in the streets. The violence and lawlessness, alas, comes from the top of our society, slaves of greed and corruption. It is they who have spread the anarchy and violence in the classrooms and in the streets. And it is only they who can begin to remedy it.
Marriage is a great institution. And even as an athiest, I do believe whenever possible, one parent should stay at home and look after the kids. Note I say one parent, mother or father; it should be a joint decision. Man and woman should have equal rights within a marriage.
Marriage should be and is a relationship between man and woman. Does not mean gays should not be able to enter in to a similar pact.
I don’t think many children would recognise the classroom you describe Grimes. Of course there are failures. As there were 20, 30, 40 or 100 years ago. Many years ago violence was probably perpetrated by the teacher and hushed up.
Value Is EverythingRemember what I respectfully said to you Ginge? We’re too far apart on fundamentals for any discussion to be sensible. So, obviously, feel free to comment on my comments, but don’t expect me to respond, will you?
Might have guessed.Petty minded arrogance on your part Grimes.
You are unable to answer some questions I have raised, so you say you don’t want to debate with me. How convenient.Most of what Grass says is very similar to what I’ve said, yet you’re still talking.
I make a comment about marriage that is in no way controversial, in fact many christians might agree with, and you blank me. "Too far apart", pull the other one.
This just proves a point.
Religons don’t talk to each other so become insular, which nurtures disrespect and mistrust. Catholics don’t talk to Protestants, Protestants don’t talk to Jews, Jews don’t talk to muslims. And nobody talks to athiests."Respectfully" you say.
I don’t call that respect.If you don’t want to talk about one subject just say so. But please, treat every subject seperately. What’s the harm of talking about a totally unrelated one (marriage).
Value Is EverythingI don’t want to talk about it. How’s that? What difference does the particular formulation make?
I almost never qualify what I say with the term, ‘respectfully’, Ginge, but in a moment of madness, I allowed a sense of what I felt was courtesy to overcome me. Sorry, and all that.
But it’s true, I never want to discuss my faith with truculent atheists, but very occasionally do so briefly, from a sense of religious duty. Until I realise it’s completely unproductive, when I abruptly stop. I frequently mock them, but, though you’re all over the place, you sound sincere.
If you want to know my views on the subject, as well as politics, etc, google ‘paulbecke’.
This is a religion that is killing people by the 100,000’s if not millions with it’s stance on condoms.
I know we should judge things that happened years ago on the morals of the time. But that is a greater reason why the Catholic Church should change their views on things like contraception and equality of women. They are still living a life based on a book written 2000 years ago. And even then on parts, or a particular version of said book.
I applaud Pope Benedict in changing his opinion on condoms. Hope this encourages those (particularly in Africa) to use condoms when there is a significant risk of spreading AIDS.
Value Is Everything
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