- This topic has 52 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Pete,
Wolverhampton, like Kempton, has a powerful floodlight focussed on the winning post, which illuminates the area around the winning line much more brightly than the standard floodlighting that covers the rest of the track.
Perhaps courses that stage evening meetings should invest in something similar to avoid these problems?
AP
I find that print wholly unsatisfactory.
How do they do it at 9.20 at Wolverhampton in the middle of January?
‘Slipper of the BHA’ (Judith) can come on here all he likes in his ‘spin doctor’ role but why can’t we as the OP asks not see what was available to the Judge?
Pomp – I’ll happily try and arrange for you to come up to the judges box with me at a meeting and show you.
PM me some dates and I’ll see what I can sort.
Paul/Slipper/Judith
I find that print wholly unsatisfactory.
How do they do it at 9.20 at Wolverhampton in the middle of January?
‘Slipper of the BHA’ (Judith) can come on here all he likes in his ‘spin doctor’ role but why can’t we as the OP asks not see what was available to the Judge?
Pomp – I’ll happily try and arrange for you to come up to the judges box with me at a meeting and show you.
PM me some dates and I’ll see what I can sort.
Paul/Slipper/Judith
I’m in.
How does Gold Cup day at Cheltenham next March suit you?
Can I call a result too?
Opps – double post.
Typical, normally takes a day and half to post anything on here – and then two in 15 seconds
Thanks for the offer Paul and if I was minded to believe something dodgy was going on I’d take you up on it.
As it is I can’t recall a single occasion when I’ve questioned the integrity of the Judge or Stewards. However, and I accept perhaps its me and I need to go to Specsavers but that photo tells me nothing and whilst I appreciate the publication on the BHA Website of photo-finishes, which I understand you were instrumental in bringing about, what is the point if they are of that quality?
Now while I don’t prescribe to the view (such as Pinza) ‘
Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes dans horseracing britannique
’ and accept there will always be problems/challenges in this sport as in all others, I do believe the OP has a valid point and surely we should all be able to see in a timely fashion what the judge sees. We owe it to the sport itself to raise the bar of transparency to the highest level.
Btw, any news on the latest Henderson doping case? As I understand it he had to cancel his disciplinary hearing on the 23rd June as he had a prior meeting at his ‘Club’ with some of the chaps (allegedly)
has it been rearranged yet?Oh I forgot my manners.
I would also like to thank Silvoir for taking the time to publish the Photo and seeking out an explanation from the Judge.
I’m guessing no doubt it must feel working for the BHA like pushing treacle up a hill on a daily basis so it is appreciated that you take the time to post on here.
- Total Posts 17716
The picture does look bent to me, I am a dab hand at Photoshop and if I had called a monumental wrong result then I could easily manipulate the photo in 5 minutes tops.
The picture does look bent to me, I am a dab hand at Photoshop and if I had called a monumental wrong result then I could easily manipulate the photo in 5 minutes tops.
I said the same to Elvis and Lord Lucan in the pub last night
Did you have to leave Shergar outside?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highways- Total Posts 17716
Now while I don’t prescribe to the view (such as Pinza) ‘
Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes dans horseracing britannique
’ and accept there will always be problems/challenges in this sport as in all others, I do believe the OP has a valid point and surely we should all be able to see in a timely fashion what the judge sees. We owe it to the sport itself to raise the bar of transparency to the highest level.
You clearly haven’t been hanging on my every whining word in other threads (e.g. RfC) if you think I’m the Dr. Pangloss of TRF. I only wish I shared his sunny disposition!
That misconception aside, "raising the bar of transparency" sounds a little daft to me. Surely
something
– in this case the probity of the Judge – has to be taken on trust, if we’re not to waste even more time and money than we do on the resource-rich red tape which is throttling the sport as it is?
So don’t you feel perhaps that earnest prayers for bars of transparency sound suspiciously like something old Voltaire himself might have satirised, as presaging the Dawning of the Age of Accountancy? In other words, the very reverse of what we "owe" to the sport, if we’re to pass it on as a pleasure, rather than an over-regulated pain.
There is a distinction between integrity and competency is there not?One must not question the judges integrity.
- Total Posts 17716
There is a distinction between integrity and competency is there not?One must not question the judges integrity.
Indeed there is that distinction: though just as surely, any attempt to "cover up" incompetency immediately brings integrity into question also.
But at some point, throwing in more and more "checks and balances" to monitor how much-maligned officials are doing their jobs becomes self-defeating. Too much process-driven bureaucracy actually works against competence, when people are concerned more about following the letter of the process than about getting the result right, and out as quickly as possible.
In this particular case "raising the bar of transparency" sounds a grand thing which we can all nod sagely about; but the fact of the matter is, that out of the thousands of photo-finishes every single year there will only be one or two which cause any controversy at all. The system works very well, and everyone can see the evidence for themselves (almost invariably) sooner rather than later, posted on the board or on the BHA website.
There is no need to officiously "raise any bars" here. They are set quite high enough as it is. And unless
Pompete
is advocating forcing all courses to install floodlights opposite the winning post for those few races run late in the evening in deep twilight (Chester’s no room for such things at all, unless you destroy half a Roman Wall!) then things are best left well alone.
Some things are certainly for the best, in this the second-best of all possible worlds. The way UK photo finishes are judged, and communicated, needs no raised bars, transparent or otherwise. It is fine as it is.
Would these sort of photographs be acceptable in athletics, I somehow doubt and there is a considerable amount of punters money at stake in horse racing.
It’s not only in the evening when this occurs, it’s throughout the winter afternoons, Calamity Jane called a dead heat a few years ago at Lingfield when it was quite "clear" on the grainy print that there was a outright winner.
It cannot beyond the wit of man in this day and age to have a bit of infra red lighting on the winning post, it’s not that expensive either.- Total Posts 17716
Would these sort of photographs be acceptable in athletics, I somehow doubt and there is a considerable amount of punters money at stake in horse racing.
It’s not only in the evening when this occurs, it’s throughout the winter afternoons, Calamity Jane called a dead heat a few years ago at Lingfield when it was quite "clear" on the grainy print that there was a outright winner.
It cannot beyond the wit of man in this day and age to have a bit of infra red lighting on the winning post, it’s not that expensive either.I’m not sure athletics is a fair comparison,
Eddie
. The humans are going rather slower than the horses, the tracks are uniform so one system can fit all, floodlighting is mandatory … and I’m not sure that infra-red systems would actually
work
across more than the handful of yards width of an athletics track (though I’m open to scientific correction on that).
Calamity Jane was proof that the system
works
, not that it was broken. After a couple of yellow cards, she got the sack:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horser … r-job.htmlIn Hong Kong trainers (and I presume owners) can request to look at the photo close-up in person. I don’t know if they have this option in the UK?
In Hong Kong trainers (and I presume owners) can request to look at the photo close-up in person. I don’t know if they have this option in the UK?
Yes they do, and in this case connections took up that option on the night, the day after and again this week, and are not appealing the decision.
“Executive Network Legal Handicap”
That may be the case. However, what you did not state, and would have put a closure on this matter, was that they are convinced that their runner was beaten on the line. For all we know, they may have preferred not to protest the decision, for fear of upsetting the establishment. The moment has been lost, don’t come back with a further statement.
Paddy Power knocked back my £0.37 bet.
has it been rearranged yet?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.