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Not sure you get what I mean, Gladiateur.
I’ll overlook the patronising response on this occasion, what with it being the New Year and all that.
Not sure you get what I mean, Gladiateur.
I’ll overlook the patronising response on this occasion, what with it being the New Year and all that.
Just think of what you implied here.
You go ahead… Think every drift from a JP horse due to the jockey, trainer and owner sh!tting on punters.You imply innocent people may be doing all sorts of stuff and then think two reasonable posts pointing out facts about the horse’s form is wrong.
Did Barry G do anything wrong in the race before the horse’s sad end?
I spend my time and effort righting your wrong, and yet you call me “Patronising”?
Sorry you feel so stupid and guilty.
Commiserations to connections.
Value Is EverythingI spend my time and effort righting your wrong, and yet you call me “Patronising”?
I appreciate your assistance but I’ve been following this game since 1980 and have A Levels in both English and Maths (with Statistics), so I’m not sure that it’s required.
Thanks all the same, though.
Isn’t this what is hypocritical about the Jim Best situation ? He’s been found guilty of something certain trainers do far more often in races with a far greater betting revenue
Also one jockey will get done for the non triers whilst a dozen more that fortnight won’t enter the stewards room.
BHA – British Horseracing Arbitration.
I spend my time and effort righting your wrong, and yet you call me “Patronising”?
I appreciate your assistance but I’ve been following this game since 1980 and have A Levels in both English and Maths (with Statistics), so I’m not sure that it’s required.
Thanks all the same, though.
Then why ask the question in the first place?
I was very interested in Laissez Dire at Plumpton today but he’s drifting like a barge this morning. I wonder if he’ll join the list?
There’s nothing in the thread to suggest you understood, and so I wasn’t to know you had a Maths A level, Gladiateur. Not that it matters, my explanation was to anyone (not just you) stating a legitemate reason why most thoroughly unexposed horses (particularly from this big punting owner) can drift badly.
One minute casting aspersions on connections integrity, the next “most sincere condolences to all involved with what looked a top-class prospect”. Racing’s not always easy.
Value Is EverythingThen why ask the question in the first place?
Erm, because this thread exists to point out McManus-owned horses who drift in the market and then monitor their performance.
Unlike some others, I’ve never had a problem with you and generally find your posts interesting and thought-provoking; however, I don’t think you fully appreciate how condescending the tone of your posts sometimes appears. You sometimes give the impression that you think that you’re the only one on this forum who understands how odds and markets work; that isn’t the case and to say to anybody (especially somebody whom you’ve never met and whose education and experience you couldn’t possibly know) that they don’t understand isn’t exactly appropriate behaviour. That’s my last word on the matter.
I bet on a Mullins/Walsh French recruit a week or two ago, was in the blue and white colours (I can’t remember the horses name), the horse was laid quite hard before the off as it went from 6/4 to 3/1 or around that. The horse was travelling well on the inside in 2nd the whole way, as they reach the home bend Ruby pulls the horse back, drops it to 8th position and sits there motionless, when the eventual winner has over a 10length lead with and goes for home with 2f left Ruby starts getting crazy on the horse and it powers home for 2nd lol.
Happens so often you just have to laugh.
Gladiateur,
You were making the case for SKULDUGGERY going on with Laissez Dire just because of the drift and who the owner was.I was making the case for NO SKULDUGGERY, ie why a drift by a big betting owner’s extremely unexposed horse can be expected.
Because bookmakers/layers would not take any chances, innitially putting it in to the market at comparitively short odds compared to its form and letting the odds drift out to its true level. I tried to do that in my first post without mentioning percentages.
…I did not say you “don’t understand”. I said “not sure you get what I mean”, it was more a statement of me not explaining well enough in my first post, so tried to expand. ie…
You said just one line in your reply: “To be fair, their entire modus operandi is to avoid getting clobbered”.
Well, NO it is not the usual bookmaker modus operandi. Because he does not usually allow anywhere near as much mark up for ONE individual horse… Which is the point I made in the subsequent post and a point you found so “patronising”. It is impossible to explain that case sufficiently well without going in to percentages (as my first post proved). Even apologised for having to use percentages for goodness sake! So am aware TRFers think any talk of them “patronising”,
I was not explaining odds and percentages here, I was explaining why and how bookmakers put a certain type of horse in to the market at shorter odds than their form suggests. Letting it drift out to its true level.
Even of those punters who do understand odds and percentages, many do not understand the mark up bookmakers use for unexposed horses is far greater than the usual amount, this bigger “mark up” emphasised further still when owned by a big hitting gambling owner… which in turn means they will often drift badly. You may understand all this Gladiateur, but as you rightly say yourself, I was not to know that. Sorry you found my explanation patronising, but am sick of punters thinking JP (and other) horses are being stopped just because they drift in the market.
Anyway, fed up with defending myself and will try not to explain so fully in future.
Value Is EverythingGinger I love you, you make this forum great and are a unique poster/person and love the way your brain works, whether deemed somewhat patronising or not; I always love reading your posts and think your way of looking at/breaking down a race is invaluable.
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