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Acouple more points just to be clear :
a) I am not ante immigration. I believe in immigration but limmitted and controlled immigration. It is out of control now.
b) I have nothing against Islam as a way of life. People are entitled to live by whatever they believe and if people want to live by the laws of Islam that is upto them. However you cannot have Western freedom and Islam side by side because there have to be laws and Islam and Western freedom are incompatible.
Wouldn’t the "indigenous" people of the UK be Celts?
Maybe the reason why most Americans seem to accept immigrants more readily is that at least three-fourths of our population is only a few generations removed from immigrants. My great-grandparents all arrived at Ellis Island from Lithuania and Russia. So we lack the whole idea of "American-ness" (or Britishness) as something only applicable to a sole group of people with a single uniform culture. By antagonizing Muslims, all the BNP is doing is encouraging further support for radical ideas. Assimilation should be encouraged, but not at the expense of losing one’s heritage and traditions-that is the concern of many 1st-gen immigrants about their children. Really, I think the idea of some huge Islamist threat is a boogeyman designed to concentrate anger at the state of the economy ("they’re taking are jobs!"), the government ("support
if you want to get rid of them!"), and the changes occuring in society as a whole ("real
do this, not that, that’s scary and
foreign
"). Solving the underlying problems will do a lot more to prevent a fringe group from taking hold than any xenophobic legislation.
Acouple more points just to be clear :
a) I am not ante immigration. I believe in immigration but limmitted and controlled immigration. It is out of control now.
b) I have nothing against Islam as a way of life. People are entitled to live by whatever they believe and if people want to live by the laws of Islam that is upto them. However you cannot have Western freedom and Islam side by side because there have to be laws and Islam and Western freedom are incompatible.
Turkey seems to have figured it out.
Turkey seems to have figured it out.
By "figured out" you mean the following ?
BBC 25 February 2010:
" Twenty military officers have been formally charged in Turkey with attempting to overthrow the government…..
The army has regarded itself as the guardian of a secular Turkish state. It has overthrown or forced the resignation of four governments since 1960 – the last time in 1997"
What a load of [expletive]….
Which part?
It’s difficult to know where to start Ian. It’s also difficult to take seriously anybody that believes “There is no longer any difference between Tory and Labour
they are all Marxists
” but I’m willing to give it a go, so perhaps we can start with you giving us an exact definition of ‘Indigenous People’;
# How will they be identified?
# What rights over and above others will they have?
# Will non-indigenous people have to be identified in someway, perhaps by wearing a little star or something?Also
# What % of the UK population is currently Muslim?
# What % of all immigrants into the UK in the last five years have been Muslim?
# At what rate per year would Muslim immigration/conversion be required for the UK to become a majority Muslim country by 2040, as you claim it will be?My word…
I knew it was a load of rubbish you were spouting anyway, but referring to Labour and the Tories as Marxists…?
Thanks for making me laugh on a Monday morning anyway!
Wow, this is the first time I ever described Labour as fascists without being laughed at or suffering a volley of abuse.
Pompete, perhaps the issue here regarding percentages is something like "what percentage of new Labour members in this, that or the other constituency/ward has a hidden agenda (in this case an ideological "extreme"-Muslim agenda.) They may only be a very small percentage of the population in a particular place, but, can be a disproportianate percentage of the members of a party/council/committee.
I’ll have to tape the CH4 documentary tonight and watch it when I get the chance to see if it’a real hornets’ nest or a storm in a tea-cup. Seems reminiscent though of the troubles the Labour Party had back in the 70’s (or was it later?) with extreme left-wing cabals.While it is perfectly feasible that some form of ‘Muslim Militant Tendency’ may exist why do you believe it will be anymore successful than Militant Tendency in the 80’s – members of which where all expelled from the Labour Party.
Democracy in the Labour Party is very simple – you tow the party line from the National Executive Committee – or you’re out.
The NEC is made up from:
Parliamentary Labour Party (9 seats) Including Leader & Deputy Leader
European Parliament Labour Party Leader (1 Seat)
Labour Councillors (2 Seats)
Constituency Labour Party (6 Seats)
Young Labour (1 Seat)
Socialist Societies (2 Seat)
Trade Unions (11 Seats)That’s a lot of positions to fill or subvert without no one noticing
Unlike militant (who nearly finished the labour party it should be remebered), there is little scope for this infiltration beyond a handful of constituencies. It was a good documentary but it also highlighted that the local labour party were addressing this (which wouldnt have happened under livingstones wing probably)
its abunch of stupid idealists being a nuisance (a sinister one in some cases must be said)
But it has remained extrordinary in many cases, how the left has been so enamoured of the islamist "brothers2 when their views are as socially right wing as you could possibly imagine. But the extremes are always closer to each other than the civilised world and in truth the far left is only defined by its bigotry and what/who its agisnt rather than what its stands for. Lets face it, what little it stands for could only be endorsed by nutters anyway
To find out about invented threats to society click on link below.
As I’ve pointed out before my experience of living in the Middle East has led me to the conclusion that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful people who have no desire to live under strict sharia law in the UK or elsewhere. Its just the agitators that need to be dealt with toughly, not given free everything (including tolerance) by the good citizens of the UK.
There was a lot of news in the local media this week about an Arab youth survey whose findings were published recently.
Two thousand 18-24 year old Arabs, in 6 countries throughout the region polled on their opinions about some important issues.
The highlight for me includes…
"The single most important priority for young people in the Middle East is living in a democratic country, followed by having quality infrastructure, and access to the best universities: 99 per cent of those interviewed said living in a democracy was either ‘very important’ or ‘somewhat important’."
Makes for an interesting read and a change from the one- track ranting of Rod Liddle and co..
99% want democracy (suspiciously looking like a soviet union "election" result that) and yet China is the major country they most admire
Of course, if they want democracy that much, i would imagine that a large proportion of the survey fully endorsed the recent Iraqi elections and the toppling of Saddam Hussein
either way, the results are probably good news in many ways but (aside from Iran which isnt arabic anyway) do we really see an undercurrent of desire for free elections? Maybe we will in the future and that can only be good
99% want democracy (suspiciously looking like a soviet union "election" result that) and yet China is the major country they most admire
You need the read the entire survey, Clivex, not just the bits that suit you. France was the most favourable, Germany was equal to China, the US wasn’t too far behind either.
The growing economic significance of the East, specifically China and India, appears to be influencing the way in which Arab youth regard the international community: In terms of ‘favourability’, China rates higher than Germany, the US and Britain. When it comes to national allies, Arab youth see Saudi Arabia as playing a leading role.
This is what i read. ok?
And that great beacon of democracy and human rights…saudi arabia…well
I suppose that is the old islamic brotherhood thing coming into play…. Thats about the most favourable spin anyone could put on it
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