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Well done to all that picked the winner – great to see all those horses enjoying themselves over those fences
Couldnt believe seeing dont push it coming up under that weight and was willing AP to get him home – alas not to be but I found myself welling up as he came up
. State of play came from a mile back – saw him prominent and thought he would tail off as he dropped back – same as last year as he ran on well.They finished very tired and it was a true test … the heat must have taken its toll as we can only imagine what effort all the horses have put in. Running that distance in that heat is some feat
Pure guts and stamina .. they gave their all.Saddened to hear of the casualties – where west end rocker was brought down it looked a horrendous fall (at beachers?) … it made me feel sick. Hoping Calgary Bay is ok – the rumours of him being a casualty I hope not true – fantastic looking horse
My thoughts go out to the stable lads/lasses who have lost their friends but at the same time – how proud they must all be to see the horses that are almost part of the family come home having done their all in the toughest test there is. It was a race worthy this year – and the jockeys did a great job … ruby said his mount got scared and was careful – he didnt force the issue. The same with AP – he knew the weight was telling at the fences … and again whilst giving every chance he knew it. The look on Ap’s face said it all – gutted.
I s’pose this is probably the best place to say this.
To Big Fella Thanks’ new owners – fer feck’s sake, please don’t run him in hte Grand National next year. By all means, give him a go in the Scottish National, or the Irish National, or the Midlands National, or the Welsh National, or even The Artist Formerly Known As The Whitbread, because he could win those, and win them really well, but, for the love of God, don’t send him to Aintree.
He can’t quite get that four-and-a-half miles. End Of.
Twitter=@PGHenn
So don't run, just like the others always do
- Total Posts 17716
Well done to all that picked the winner – great to see all those horses enjoying themselves over those fences
Couldnt believe seeing dont push it coming up under that weight and was willing AP to get him home – alas not to be but I found myself welling up as he came up
. State of play came from a mile back – saw him prominent and thought he would tail off as he dropped back – same as last year as he ran on well.They finished very tired and it was a true test … the heat must have taken its toll as we can only imagine what effort all the horses have put in. Running that distance in that heat is some feat
Pure guts and stamina .. they gave their all.Saddened to hear of the casualties – where west end rocker was brought down it looked a horrendous fall (at beachers?) … it made me feel sick. Hoping Calgary Bay is ok – the rumours of him being a casualty I hope not true – fantastic looking horse
My thoughts go out to the stable lads/lasses who have lost their friends but at the same time – how proud they must all be to see the horses that are almost part of the family come home having done their all in the toughest test there is. It was a race worthy this year – and the jockeys did a great job … ruby said his mount got scared and was careful – he didnt force the issue. The same with AP – he knew the weight was telling at the fences … and again whilst giving every chance he knew it. The look on Ap’s face said it all – gutted.
Great to see all the horses enjoying themselves? you think?
This year’s race has not been a good advert for the Grand National and I am sure it will bring a bigger backlash against the sport than usual.
- Total Posts 17716
This year’s race has not been a good advert for the Grand National and I am sure it will bring a bigger backlash against the sport than usual.
Yes Hence my comment on ‘All the horses enjoying the fences’. I am certainly not anti jumping,but i dont think you will find many horses who enjoy the Grand National,a lot of people do .Firstly too many runners, 2nd some of the fences are a bit severe and 3rd its run over too far with the field size and fences.The powers that be are bringing controversy on themselves by allowing 40 runners.If it was limited to about 25 it is much safer,as it would mostly be the stragglers that didnt get a run.
Next Years National run over 4m 1f 65yards and Big Fella Thanks surely his time has come, absolute certainty! Came there cruising at the 2nd last, looked like it was a case of how far and didnt get home for 3rd year in a row. Oh Well he gave me a good run for my money and my other bets Dont Push It and State Of Play made the frame so it was enjoyable from a betting point of view
The Sadness is for the horses that died and the scene of that horse lying with just a tarp covering him as the field bypassed the 1 before Becehers. Seemed like he died quickly which at least spared him some pain. The race was memorable, exciting and thrilling if tinged with a degree of sadness afterwards
PS. Peter Toole, my thoughts and prayers are with you
This year’s race has not been a good advert for the Grand National and I am sure it will bring a bigger backlash against the sport than usual.
Yes Hence my comment on ‘All the horses enjoying the fences’. I am certainly not anti jumping,but i dont think you will find many horses who enjoy the Grand National,a lot of people do .Firstly too many runners, 2nd some of the fences are a bit severe and 3rd its run over too far with the field size and fences.The powers that be are bringing controversy on themselves by allowing 40 runners.If it was limited to about 25 it is much safer,as it would mostly be the stragglers that didnt get a run.
I suppose your ideal Grand National would be 3 miles 4, limited to 20 runners and run round Carlisle racecourse?
Give me a break the race has never been safer. Those horses died yesterday because they got far too close to the fences. If they did the same on any other racecourse they would have died there too. It had nothing to do with the racecourse itself.
I was deeply saddened by the losses yesterday, just like everyone else, but the National is a safe race. Sure it has a risk, just like every other race, it’s just easier to pick on because of it’s novelty.
Well done to connections, all that backed Ballabriggs and/or made a profit.
I am with others who think this result (two horse deaths) has not done racing any good. However, feelings that fences are too stiff are wide of the mark (imo). Primarily, the offending object is not the obstacles, hitting them does not (on the whole) kill. It is speed and firmness of the ground that does the damage. If fences are made easier, horses go faster over them and (when they do fall) death and/or injury is more likely.
Despite them having to go around the outside of two fences – including on the wide outside of a turn – they were 13 seconds faster than Racing Post Standard. that suggests to me it was more like good-firm on the National course.
Did they water enough?
I don’t know if these particular deaths were caused by ground conditions; but it is a known fact fatalities and injuries increase the firmer the going.
Are there too many runners?
40 horses makes being brought down and/or horses falling on top of each other, too likely; especially now the fences are (presumably) narrower, to allow them to ommit a fence.
Value Is EverythingWest End Rocker (nap)
Ballabriggs (nb)
Grand Slam Hero
Calgary Baygl
30 runner Topham winner, check
40 runner National winner, checkC’mon Peter dig in and recover
Once again the National has turned out to be an extremely predictable race. Yes, you get the occasional fluke but generally you are looking for a horse which has only been targeted at this race all year (and nothing else). You do not win a National as an afterthought, hence horses like Quinz, Silver by Nature & What a Friend had no chance.
There’s been a lot of analysis on these pages (far too much) about breeding and all sorts of nonsense – none of that stuff matters. The only thing that counts is that the horse must be targeted for the race since the National is a bruising, exhausting affair and there is too much energy required not to have this as your sole focus for the season. This is borne out with the first 5 home in the race.
This fact and having a good racing weight is all you need to know. As I’ve stated previously my selections were Oscar Time at 50s and State of Play, Arbour Supreme and The Midnight Club at 40s. I had actually a small amount on Ballabriggs at 33s after its Kim Muir victory, but I did not fancy it when the weights came out since it was allocated 4 to 5 pounds more than I expected.
The stats provided on these pages are interesting, but useless if you want to make a profit – if you don’t believe that look at the work Ginger put in and if you would have followed his "verdict" you would have ended up with zero, unless you had Niche Market for 5th place – whoopee.
I’m personally only interested in Cheltenham and Aintree re racing since I go to both festivals on all days and want to have some fun and I hate the flat, hence all my ante post betting is geared towards these 2 events only. Therefore, my betting will start to be made from Nov onwards for next year and I can tell you after this year my on line coffers are well and truly swollen – NB: – first 6 winners on Day 2 of Cheltenham.
Anybody interested in the National for next year – I’ve seen a couple of you make comments about Big Fella Thanks, but I recommend this one at 40s EW with BET 365 for 5 places NB: – the firm I used for my bets this year. The thing you were missing with this animal which gave it no chance this year was its weight. Before last years National it won a race which meant it was not penalised for 2010 and went off favourite, but was for 2011, thus making it 8 pounds worse off with State off Play from 2010 – even though State beat it. The fact that Big Fella was shorter odds blows my mind and makes no sense to me whatsoever – if you fancied Big Fella you obviously did not consider its weight.
However I recommend Big Fella for next year for 2 reasons – firstly Ferdy Murphy stated earlier that his campaign next year should all be geared towards the National and secondly I think the handicapper will relent next year and put it down 5 / 6 pounds. This combined with another year (it will be 10 years old – perfect age) should give it a much better chance of getting home and at 40s a small investment EW for 5 places represents tremendous value.
Ginger in your posts you state "value is everything", I disagree completely, I think having money in the coffers as a result of your selections is everything.
i love the national, been brought up with it ever since i was little and hearing about red rum
my heart sank when i saw the pile up at bechers, and i said ones gone
bechers in previous years had been pretty safe to jump, my concerns have come over the modifications, of last year, where they have made it possible too bypass the fences, ie for loose horses, by doing this they seem to made the jumping track adn fences not as long in width, soo what i saw on saturday, was horses all gathering up towards inner, whereas when they used to jump bechers they always took the safer route of middle to outer, i maybe wrong but thats what i see, 40 runners and they seem to have caused problems by making them less room to move by doing the alterations they madei backed the winner and had a runner up, was pleased for the mccains but also still upset at the sad losses, ive had people calling me for following racing and saying we have no heart, we love our national hunt horses, we know them better then them, soo we feel the pain of when a horses sadly loses its life, except tehy don;t think that
aside from that it was a fantastic finish, with ballabriggs, oscar time and big fella thanks all in with a shout at the end
vf
Some of this seems to be getting a bit personal at the end, which is a shame.
I’d like to thank everyone who spent time researching and then posted their opinions, for me it’s about learning from people with more experience and I have certainly done that.
- Total Posts 17716
This year’s race has not been a good advert for the Grand National and I am sure it will bring a bigger backlash against the sport than usual.
Yes Hence my comment on ‘All the horses enjoying the fences’. I am certainly not anti jumping,but i dont think you will find many horses who enjoy the Grand National,a lot of people do .Firstly too many runners, 2nd some of the fences are a bit severe and 3rd its run over too far with the field size and fences.The powers that be are bringing controversy on themselves by allowing 40 runners.If it was limited to about 25 it is much safer,as it would mostly be the stragglers that didnt get a run.
I suppose your ideal Grand National would be 3 miles 4, limited to 20 runners and run round Carlisle racecourse?
Give me a break the race has never been safer. Those horses died yesterday because they got far too close to the fences. If they did the same on any other racecourse they would have died there too. It had nothing to do with the racecourse itself.
I was deeply saddened by the losses yesterday, just like everyone else, but the National is a safe race. Sure it has a risk, just like every other race, it’s just easier to pick on because of it’s novelty.
No,deal in facts! Its not safe!
Hello, I have just joined specifically to read the debate on the Grand National, I have read so many comments over the last couple of days from members of the public who have no insight or opinions on the race other than to say that it is cruel or should be banned so I have been looking at comments on forums such as this to get a better and more educated view. I have to say that over previous years I have never watched the Grand National until the closing stages when the fences have been jumped and my attitude was that I love seeing the horses but felt uncomfortable about watching them jump. As I have become more involved from a watching point of view by going to race meetings and actually watching the races my enjoyment of the sport has increased, I can now actually watch the Grand National without leaving the room at the first sight of a faller so either my attitude has changed and I am finding it more acceptable or they are on the whole getting it right or at least trying to, but being forced into making changes just to appease a public inflamed by some newspapers showing distressing, grapic close ups of a stricken horse and calling it a cruel sport will do nothing to help in the long term and may bring more problems that will compromise the safety and welbeing of the animals that I am sure most of us who follow the sport are actually passionate about the welbeing of. I don’t actually think that NH racing will ever sit comfortably as a sport with some people, what it has to do is to get it’s house in order and do all it can to show that the well being and safety of the animal’s that are it’s lifeblood are an ongoing and important part of it’s agenda and then put it into practice as a priority.
Strange, the bookmakers cut Ballabriggs for winning a couple of hurdles and then leave him unchanged when he gets beaten over fences? Even allowing for the winner having a new lease of life, he found disappointingly little off the bridle and I think there are big doubts about him staying the trip and even if he did whether he is good enough.
I was at Kelso and i wouldn’t read anything too much into it. They went no pace early on. The front two are nice horses. Whether they have the stamina for the National is guesswork. One thing that strikes me about the National these days is that apart from Amberleigh House, nothing has come from a mile back to win. If the ground is quick you need a horse with a bit of pace to keep up in the first half of the race. The winner is usually in the front group by Beechers second time. These two could cope with that. Not sure the likes of Silver By Nature would be within 25 lengths at this stage on decent ground.
every now and then (not very often !!) i get lulled into thinking i know a wee bit about racing
BHA hits back at Grand National criticism
By James Burn 7:00PM 11 APR 2011 THE BHA on Monday hit back at critics of Saturday’s John Smith’s Grand National, in which two horses died, launching a staunch defence of the showpiece race and its safety measures.
Ornais and Dooneys Gate were the two horses fatally injured, meaning two of the contest’s 30 famous fences were bypassed, while the winner, Ballabriggs, was immediately dismounted by jockey Jason Maguire – in accordance with a pre-race directive from the BHA.
The scenes sparked an outbreak of criticism from animal rights groups and the national press, but Tim Morris, the BHA’s director of equine science and welfare, said Saturday’s events demonstrated the welfare improvements.
"The Grand National is a difficult race and was run this year on an unseasonably warm day," Morris said in a statement on Monday night.
"Because of that, all the jockeys had been instructed prior to the race to dismount from their horses as soon as the race was over in order to allow the team of handlers and vets to get water to the horses so as to prevent overheating [which is a main cause of collapse], as it is when people run and race over long distances.
"This preventative action happened to all the horses, not just the winner, and shows welfare improvements in action. No horse collapsed.
Tim Morris: BHA measures are "welfare in action"
"The introduction of the run-outs, which were used for the first time this year, were introduced in 2009, the year after the horse McKelvey died.
"They were introduced after much discussion, which included the RSPCA, as a welfare measure to allow loose horses to be able to go round the obstacles, and not, as has beenreported, to prevent the race from being voided. Again this is welfare in action."
Morris singled out animal rights pressure group Animal Aid for criticism, saying: "They are not an animal welfare group, as many newspapers and news channels have been misinformed.
"They are an animal rights organisation against the use of animals for sport and leisure. As such their clearly stated agenda is to ban racing.
“If racing didn’t exist, this would have a huge impact on tens of thousands of thoroughbreds across the UK; it would effectively mean that owners and trainers wouldn’t be able to look after their horses and the breed would disappear, as would a large part of British life."
This is their full statement:
BRITISH HORSERACING AUTHORITY’S DIRECTOR OF EQUINE SCIENCE AND WELFARE STATEMENT ON THE GRAND NATIONAL
“The Grand National was attended by over 70,000 people and watched by tens of millions, many of whom would have had a bet, or taken part in a sweepstake. Any one of those millions of people would undoubtedly have been very saddened by the accidents, seen clearly on television, which led to the death of Ornais and Dooneys Gate during the race.
“Racing is a sport with risk, and the Grand National is the most testing race in Great Britain; that is why it has captured the imagination of so many for over a century. Racing works hard to reduce the risk. Some risk to horses is inherent in the sport, as it is to differing degrees in the life of a horse in any environment. Racing is open and transparent about these risks, publishes information about equine fatalities on the Authority’s website, and works to further reduce these risks [see Notes for Editors 1 and 4]
“All those involved in racing do care for their horses. At the race itself there are more than 150 specialist staff who are completely focused on making the race as safe as possible, so there is no shortage of effort or expense in this respect. [see Notes for Editors 2 for detail]. This care and concern is why Horseracing has for many years also worked closely with legitimate animal welfare charities, such as the RSPCA and World Horse Welfare. The role of both these organisations is to be critical and raise concerns with us and, if they are not happy with the action we take, there is no doubt they would be very public about it, as anyone would expect from a legitimate animal welfare organisation.
“Beyond this proper concern for horse welfare, much of the prompting on this issue to the media has been driven by Animal Aid. Animal Aid are not an animal welfare group, as many newspapers and news channels have been misinformed. They are an animal rights organisation against the use of animals for sport and leisure. As such their clearly stated agenda is to ban racing. [see Notes for Editors 3].
“If racing then didn’t exist, this would have a huge impact on tens of thousands of thoroughbreds across the UK; it would effectively mean that owners and trainers wouldn’t be able to look after their horses and the breed would disappear; as would a large part of British life.
“Such Animal Rights campaigners are entitled to their views, but the overwhelming majority of the British public take an animal welfare viewpoint as to how they deal responsibly with their obligations to animals kept as pets, raised for food and used in sport and leisure. They do not want to stop eating meat, keeping pets, riding horses or watching racing, but do want risks to animals be reduced to the minimum.
“So it is clear there are two quite distinct issues here. The first issue is how we can realistically reduce the risk in the Grand National further, and that is the job of the BHA, Animal Welfare groups and Aintree Racecourse. We do listen to those concerns that have been raised and will continue to strive to reduce risk, whether that is in specific relation to the Grand National or in any other race. The second issue is the wider ethical debate of whether it is right for humans to use animals in leisure, sport and for food. Neither of these issues is served by the emotive language and misleading information from Animal Rights campaigners.
“The BHA would also like to clarify the following points:
“The Grand National is a difficult race and was run this year on an unseasonably warm day. Because of that, all the jockeys had been instructed prior to the race to dismount from their horses as soon as the race was over in order to allow the team of handlers and vets to get water to the horses so as to prevent over-heating (which is a main cause of collapse), as it is when people run and race over long distances. This preventative action happened to all the horses, not just the winner, and shows welfare improvements in action. No horse collapsed.
“The introduction of the run-outs, which were used for the first time this year, were introduced in 2009, the year after the horse McKelvey died. They were introduced after much discussion, which included the RSPCA, as a welfare measure to allow loose horses to be able to go round the obstacles, and not, as has been reported, to prevent the race from being voided. Again this is welfare in action.
“The winning jockey, Jason Maguire has been banned for exceeding the strict limits which we place on the use of the whip. The horse was carefully examined after the race and there is no evidence of an abuse. Such abuses are dealt with very seriously and, as we do at the end of every season, we will certainly be reviewing our Rules to ensure that we have the balance right between appropriate use of the whip and controlling inappropriate, unacceptable use.”
Notes for Editors
(1) Including this year, in 12 runnings of the Grand National since 2000, 479 horses have raced in the Grand National. 8 horses have been fatally injured, and we openly report this, as do the media including the BBC. Put another way, 471 horses went home after the race. In addition, in the seven years previous to this year’s running of the race, just three horses had lost their lives competing in the race – Hear The Echo, McKelvey and Tyneandthyneagain. McKelvey and Tyneandthyneagain were both injured when running riderless.
(2) 20 horse catchers; at least two fence attendants at each of the National’s 16 fences; four stewards to inspect the course; two British Horseracing Authority Course Inspectors; 10 vets; 50 ground staff; and 35 ground repair staff
(3) In an interview with Nicky Campbell two or three years ago in advance of the Grand National, Andrew Tyler, the head of Animal Aid, was put on the spot by Nicky Campbell and he admitted that he wanted racing banned. He did the same last year ahead of the Grand National in an interview with BBC Scotland.
(4) For more information on Equine Welfare please see:
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