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Perhaps it is bad taste to include fatalities, but I think they are very relevant to the discussion. If we’re talking about how Henderson’s training methods may have become faulty, then it is pertinent to mention horses who have suffered training or racecourse injuries that led to lengthy absences or worse.
Though he operates on a much smaller scale and may not be the best comparison, trainer Simon Earle’s blog and methods reveal how intense attention to detail can help a yard run with less training injuries. He trains and runs all of his horses with bespoke saddles to match the contours of their backs, whereas most yards use generic ‘off the peg’ tack. Earle also trains and runs most of his horses barefoot and includes a lot of ‘diagonal’ training on uneven surfaces. These extra steps help a horse improve overall balance, cope with bumps from opposition in a race, sudden changes of direction and jumping errors.
The result? Not a lame day from a string of eight horses last season.
Racehorses are increasingly fragile, but it is my view that their management and conditioning isn’t as well optimised as the biggest yards would have you believe. The 3% fatalities figure is something a yard should challenge and tackle with insightful training methods rather than grudgingly accept.
Some good posts on this thread but…
I’d definitely blame Henderson for the dead and injured ones, particularly the dead ones. There’s just no excuse for it and the buck stops with the trainer.
Oscar Whisky (dead)
Kid Cassidy (dead)
Captain Cutter (dead)
Kentucky Hyden (dead)Nicky Henderson wasn’t even Kid Cassidy’s trainer at the time of his death. Hampered and fell, breaking a leg in Galway Plate on first start for Christy Roche.
Captain Cutter died of a heart attack while in his box.
Oscar Whisky had to be put down after injuries sustained falling at the 6th fence in the Tingle Creek.
Kentucky Hyden was last seen pulled up and immediately dismounted in a Bangor handicap in November. Presumably the horse did not recover.
Please explain why any of these fatalities were Nicky Henderson’s fault?
Value Is EverythingOur Nick did manage a chase win with Medieval Chapel last week – had to go to Fakenham for it but even so.
Not much promise from Tanks For That on Saturday.
Close Touch, thought by many to look really promising on Boxing Day was beaten odds on at Market Rasen and failed to hold off the cheaply bought Henderson / Michael Buckley cast off Minella Forfitness for second.
Doesn`t seem great to me
As I hinted with my references to Simon Earle’s great work, I’m suggesting that Henderson’s training methods might be responsible for his problems. The clumsiness of his chasers, the shocking lack of longevity in his best horses and their proneness to physical problems might be related. I am only speculating but feel that I am backed up by some logic.
Surely you can make the link from what I was saying before. Many of us raised concerns about Oscar Whisky’s jumping technique long before his fatal fall – he obviously needed remedial work to produce his best at 2m 4f, let alone the furious pace of a G1 2m race.
Given that some smaller yards can defy the statistics in keeping their horses fit and healthy, it seems worrying that a supposedly top-tier trainer can have so many ‘unfortunate’ losses of high-class animals in such a short space of time. A leading yard with such an abundance of wealth should also lead the way in its methods and care for the horses. A heart-attack or a broken leg on course shouldn’t automatically be written off as ‘one of those things in racing’. I would expect a trainer with such massive resources to also be an outlier with a notably good record of keeping horses sound and alive. I am not saying every death is preventable, don’t get me wrong.
Nonetheless, Henderson’s recent track record in this area certainly doesn’t impress.
I like the man – always have, possibly because he’s been around pretty much all the way through my ‘era’. Also, he seems to care very much emotionally for his horses, is unfailingly polite and well mannered and just seems an all round nice bloke.
Some argue he performed miracles with See You Then (legs like glass), but I think it is fair to say (anecdotally at least) that his steeplechasers seem to have more than their share of jumping problems.
Even Sprinter Sacre is an unusual jumper given the extravagance of many of his leaps: great to watch but inefficient energy use.
Long Run could never bend his back fully under pressure, leaving his hind legs in a fence. Simonsig is the same.
Oscar W, Grandouet, Shakalakaboomboom, Tanks For That, Roberto Goldback, all had their problems.
Perhaps things would be worse without Geraghty who, imo, excels at getting a horse from one side to the other somehow.
Still, facts tell the story: in the last 5 NH seasons, his win %
NHF: 30
Hurdle: 25
Chase: 23Nicholls is 18, 23, 23
Hobbs is 18, 15, 17
Twister: 13, 14, 14
On these figures, Nicky is the best in Britain, and joint best with Chasers. I guess some things just stick in people’s minds, and they’re hard to shake.
I like the man – always have, possibly because he’s been around pretty much all the way through my ‘era’. Also, he seems to care very much emotionally for his horses, is unfailingly polite and well mannered and just seems an all round nice bloke.
Some argue he performed miracles with See You Then (legs like glass), but I think it is fair to say (anecdotally at least) that his steeplechasers seem to have more than their share of jumping problems.
Even Sprinter Sacre is an unusual jumper given the extravagance of many of his leaps: great to watch but inefficient energy use.
Long Run could never bend his back fully under pressure, leaving his hind legs in a fence. Simonsig is the same.
Oscar W, Grandouet, Shakalakaboomboom, Tanks For That, Roberto Goldback, all had their problems.
Perhaps things would be worse without Geraghty who, imo, excels at getting a horse from one side to the other somehow.
Still, facts tell the story: in the last 5 NH seasons, his win %
NHF: 30
Hurdle: 25
Chase: 23Nicholls is 18, 23, 23
Hobbs is 18, 15, 17
Twister: 13, 14, 14
On these figures, Nicky is the best in Britain, and joint best with Chasers. I guess some things just stick in people’s minds, and they’re hard to shake.
But not this season, which is the point of the thread.
As for the excuses, Ann Stokell could probably compile as convincing a list.
Some good posts on this thread but…
I’d definitely blame Henderson for the dead and injured ones, particularly the dead ones. There’s just no excuse for it and the buck stops with the trainer.
Oscar Whisky (dead)
Kid Cassidy (dead)
Captain Cutter (dead)
Kentucky Hyden (dead)Nicky Henderson wasn’t even Kid Cassidy’s trainer at the time of his death. Hampered and fell, breaking a leg in Galway Plate on first start for Christy Roche.
Captain Cutter died of a heart attack while in his box.
Oscar Whisky had to be put down after injuries sustained falling at the 6th fence in the Tingle Creek.
Kentucky Hyden was last seen pulled up and immediately dismounted in a Bangor handicap in November. Presumably the horse did not recover.
Please explain why any of these fatalities were Nicky Henderson’s fault?
Trust Gingertipster It would be interesting if there was such a thing as statistics for a yards horses at the end of the year. If trainers had to publish how many wind ops, tendons, suspensories and other injuries only then could we get a flavour as to who is the better trainer on the soundness level. As a fact I know a top French trainer who had 75 horses in training last year have only 2 horses with tendon injuries. There training methods are much more horse friendly, based on conditioning work (NH yard) and less constant fast work. Nicholls has just got himself a round canter, a method that has been used in France for many years, Skelton did this first. Alot of the sounder horses seem to be the ones bought from France where they are broken and jumped from 2 onwards.
As I hinted with my references to Simon Earle’s great work, I’m suggesting that Henderson’s training methods might be responsible for his problems. The clumsiness of his chasers, the shocking lack of longevity in his best horses and their proneness to physical problems might be related. I am only speculating but feel that I am backed up by some logic.
Surely you can make the link from what I was saying before. Many of us raised concerns about Oscar Whisky’s jumping technique long before his fatal fall – he obviously needed remedial work to produce his best at 2m 4f, let alone the furious pace of a G1 2m race.
Given that some smaller yards can defy the statistics in keeping their horses fit and healthy, it seems worrying that a supposedly top-tier trainer can have so many ‘unfortunate’ losses of high-class animals in such a short space of time. A leading yard with such an abundance of wealth should also lead the way in its methods and care for the horses. A heart-attack or a broken leg on course shouldn’t automatically be written off as ‘one of those things in racing’. I would expect a trainer with such massive resources to also be an outlier with a notably good record of keeping horses sound and alive. I am not saying every death is preventable, don’t get me wrong.
Nonetheless, Henderson’s recent track record in this area certainly doesn’t impress.
So you’re holding up Simon Earle’s “great work” in comparisson to Nicky Henderson.
Three questions:Have you gone through Simon Earle’s record, or just taken his word for it?
Are you judging Henderson in exactly the same way as you are Earle?
How many chasers do you think Simon Earle has compared to Nicky Henderson?
Though he operates on a much smaller scale and may not be the best comparison, trainer Simon Earle’s blog and methods reveal how intense attention to detail can help a yard run with less training injuries. He trains and runs all of his horses with bespoke saddles to match the contours of their backs, whereas most yards use generic ‘off the peg’ tack. Earle also trains and runs most of his horses barefoot and includes a lot of ‘diagonal’ training on uneven surfaces. These extra steps help a horse improve overall balance, cope with bumps from opposition in a race, sudden changes of direction and jumping errors.
The result? Not a lame day from a string of eight horses last season.
Racehorses are increasingly fragile, but it is my view that their management and conditioning isn’t as well optimised as the biggest yards would have you believe. The 3% fatalities figure is something a yard should challenge and tackle with insightful training methods rather than grudgingly accept.
It is obvious “some smaller yards” will have a much better percentage of fatalities than yards with large strings. The opposite is also true, some smaller yards will have a larger percentage – purely because of the small number of horses trained skews the figures. It is crazy to judge trainers like this. What if just ONE of Simon Earle’s string of (you say) “EIGHT horses in training” were to be killed? He’d then go from (supposedly) 0% to a 12.5% fatality rate; much larger than the 3% you’re complaining about. Would that ONE fatality then mean there’s something wrong with Simon Earle’s methods?
It is impossible to judge a trainer like this, but let’s look at Simon Earle’s actual record:
I dare say he had more come to him during the season, but in the book Horses In Training 2014, Earle had 11 horses listed. Remembering you’ve been criticising/speculating Henderson’s methods of training could be contributing to his horses long absences, poor jumping and most importantly – fatalities (even if through heart attacks in its box at home or falls on a racecourse). Those 11:
Already Basking: Became temperamental and has left the yard.
Get Back To Me: Jumps very poorly.
Headly’s Bridge: Had 8 months off between early April and late November. Why, if he’s been always in A1 condition?
Homer Run: [b:sixb7pk6]Dead![/b:sixb7pk6]
Loxley Mezile: Made mistakes both starts over hurdles. Not run since 10th April 2014. Has he been retired? If so, why?
Money Maid: After 7 months off was pulled up on 12th November and hasn’t been seen since! If criticing Henderson’s Simonsig’s why no criticism here?
Red Not Blue: Not seen since June 2014. Probably retired through age.
Shanaderry Kin: Jumped none too fluently on only run 11th April 2014. [b:sixb7pk6]Dead![/b:sixb7pk6]
Water Rail: In Raceform Horses In Training 2014, yet only this week has seen a racecourse, on 14th Feb 2015. Where’s he been if in A1 condition?
Zakatal: Consistently poor jumper of hurdles.
2 fatalities from 11 horses, 18% attrition rate.
Of those 11 horses only 1 was/is a chaser.Do you judge the fatalities, poor jumping and absences in the same way as Henderson’s TYF?
I would not judge Simon Earle from such a small sample, and won’t judge Nicky Henderson through results of just one group of horses.
Yes, Nicky Henderson should look at what (if anything) has caused such a poor strike rate compared to his previous strike rates. However, think it is very probable he himself is doing exactly that. Henderson has got where he is today through an “attention to detail”.
Idea of the thread is a good one TYF, am not critical of that. Difference in strike rates worth pointing out. However, the “logic” used in explanation by both yourself and Yeats does not make sense to me. Only a personal view. I don’t think trainers should be blamed for fatalities when there is no evidence they are to blame.
Comparisson with Oscar Whisky and Big Zeb has already been made. One who made mistakes and fell at 2m4f, returned to 2m and fell fatally. One made mistakes and fell at 2m4f, returned to 2m and won a Champion Chase.
May be there is something wrong with Henderson’s training methods, schooling, staff etc in the last 18 months?
May be there is something wrong with the Lambourn gallops?
My be it is just a coincidence?
May be the problems are there but have been over emphasised by always being in the public eye?
If the low chase winning strike rate continues it will be very worrying.Too soon to judge imo.
Value Is EverythingI’d definitely blame Henderson for the dead and injured ones, particularly the dead ones. There’s just no excuse for it and the buck stops with the trainer.
Think this was said with tongue firmly in cheek GT..
Just a few points to make about a few of the horses in question:
Shanaderry Kin injured himself when coming round a wind operation while in the care of a vet.
Zakatal had an undiagnosed intolerance to salt, explaining his terrible efforts prior to his latest two starts. He finished strongly for third at Wincanton on Satuday and seems much improved since that was resolved. He may even be well handicapped now.
Homer Run was brought down at Towcester and was completely blameless in a terribly unlucky incident that cost him his life.
Water Rail is an inexperienced homebred youngster presumably sent back to strengthen up after his first racecourse experience.
Get Back To Me has had a wind operation and is waiting for good ground.
Money Maid was part of the ‘not a lame day’ season last year, but is indeed currently injured and undergoing electrotherapy.
Headlys Bridge and Kavanaghs Corner were affected by a viral infection, hence their breaks. You could debate whether that shows that yard hygiene needs more work, but these airborne bugs aren’t always avoidable. Headlys Bridge is a very progressive chaser.
Red Not Blue had an excellent career for a modest animal, finishing in the money 22 times from 36 runs and not having a single enforced spell on the sidelines. He improved under Earle’s handling from a rating of 96 to a peak of 143.
Indeed, Earle did have two fatalities, but you’d be a harsh man to compare them to Oscar Whisky, Kentucky Hyden and the rest of Henderson’s walking wounded when they were such freakish incidents. Earle is also extremely proactive in diagnosing problems, as with the wind ops, electrotherapy and the diet of Zakatal. Compare this to Nicky Henderson, the man who admitted trying to "get away with" running Punchestowns in the RSA despite the horse having a recurrent lameness problem.
I think it is also rather unfair to compare strike rates between the two yards. Henderson has the luxury of well-bred, expensive purchases invariably running in small field open events at short odds. Earle has less fashionably-bred and therefore generally less robust animals to work with in ‘the streets’ of large field low grade racing.
[code:38y1mzar]But not this season, which is the point of the thread.[/code:38y1mzar]
Fair enough: Here is this season, for NHF, Hurdles, Chases
Henderson
32
28
16Nicholls
25
19
29Hobbs
35
15
22Twister
7
16
18It seems he can still train Bumper horses and hurdlers
It seems he can still train Bumper horses and hurdlers
And those would be the youngest, soundest horses with fewest miles on the clock.
Just a few points to make about a few of the horses in question:
Shanaderry Kin injured himself when coming round a wind operation while in the care of a vet.
Zakatal had an undiagnosed intolerance to salt, explaining his terrible efforts prior to his latest two starts. He finished strongly for third at Wincanton on Satuday and seems much improved since that was resolved. He may even be well handicapped now.
Homer Run was brought down at Towcester and was completely blameless in a terribly unlucky incident that cost him his life.
Water Rail is an inexperienced homebred youngster presumably sent back to strengthen up after his first racecourse experience.
Get Back To Me has had a wind operation and is waiting for good ground.
Money Maid was part of the ‘not a lame day’ season last year, but is indeed currently injured and undergoing electrotherapy.
Headlys Bridge and Kavanaghs Corner were affected by a viral infection, hence their breaks. You could debate whether that shows that yard hygiene needs more work, but these airborne bugs aren’t always avoidable. Headlys Bridge is a very progressive chaser.
Red Not Blue had an excellent career for a modest animal, finishing in the money 22 times from 36 runs and not having a single enforced spell on the sidelines. He improved under Earle’s handling from a rating of 96 to a peak of 143.
Indeed, Earle did have two fatalities, but you’d be a harsh man to compare them to Oscar Whisky, Kentucky Hyden and the rest of Henderson’s walking wounded when they were such freakish incidents. Earle is also extremely proactive in diagnosing problems, as with the wind ops, electrotherapy and the diet of Zakatal. Compare this to Nicky Henderson, the man who admitted trying to “get away with” running Punchestowns in the RSA despite the horse having a recurrent lameness problem.
I think it is also rather unfair to compare strike rates between the two yards. Henderson has the luxury of well-bred, expensive purchases invariably running in small field open events at short odds. Earle has less fashionably-bred and therefore generally less robust animals to work with in ‘the streets’ of large field low grade racing.
I have not mentioned winning strike rates of the two yards. It is you who’s wanted to compare Simon Earle’s record to Henderson, not I.
It seems you are willing to rightly excuse anything from Simon Earle’s point of view, yet speculate (amongst other things) that Henderson’s Captain Cutter’s heart attack while in his box could have been due to bad training methods. Why isn’t that treated as a “freakish incident” in the same way? I wonder had it been Henderson’s horses with wind op’s that go wrong, whether you’d have speculated why those op’s were needed in the first place?
You’re speculating Simon Earle’s horses were “less robust animals”, with no evidence to say they were.
You suggested Simon Earle’s horses are better at “sudden changes of direction” manoevering out of the way…
Earle also trains and runs most of his horses barefoot and includes a lot of ‘diagonal’ training on uneven surfaces. These extra steps help a horse improve overall balance, cope with bumps from opposition in a race, sudden changes of direction and jumping errors.
So under your perameters of:
A heart-attack or a broken leg on course shouldn’t automatically be written off as ‘one of those things in racing’.
Homer Run was unable to have this “sudden change of direction” to miss the loose horse when brought down. I myself do not blame trainer or jockey for this, it just strikes me as the Simon Earle propaganda is unfair on Henderson.
You’ve ignored the similarities between Oscar Whisky and Big Zeb. If it was wrong for Oscar Whisky to return to 2 miles, would you have stopped Big Zeb from going back to 2 miles then?
You’ve criticised the jumping and lengthy absences of Henderson horses, yet rightly make excuses for Simon Earle’s horses making mistakes and being absent through wind op’s, viral infections, injuries and awaiting good ground. You’re failing to see the point TYF…
Aren’t Henderson horses also allowed to have “wind op’s or viral infections or injuries or awaiting good ground”?
Take all of those problems Simon Earle has experienced from just 11 horses and times them by 14 – (Nicky had 157 horses listed) and you get a feeling of what the Henderson team might have experienced.
Simon Earle’s 11 horses in training consisted of 1 chaser. So Henderson’s horses are bound to get more injuries.
Compare Henderson’s record with his hurdlers to Earle’s and what do you get?There may be questions Henderson should ask himself. But a comparisson between Earle and Henderson is crazy, they are so different.
Value Is EverythingCaptain Cutter died of a heart attack while in his box.
Not that it affects the arguments either way, but this statement is untrue. Captain Cutter fractured his pelvis in last year’s Spa Hurdle and had to be put down several weeks later following complications, thus becoming the 5th Festival fatality.
Strangely enough, JP’s only other Challow Hurdle winner Backspin (trained by Jonjo O’Neill) did die of a suspected heart attack while in his box.
That’s just my point though GT. I think Nicky Henderson has such resources that his yard should be at the apex of veterinary science and in a position to incorporate the most dynamic new training methods. We should be looking at his yard in admiration of how he defies injury and fatality statistics. Instead, practically all of his best older horses are performing poorly, injured or worse. That is an appalling failing for someone in his position imo. With respect to the smaller yard, he should not be operating at a lesser or comparable level to Simon Earle in horse welfare.
Simon Earle was my example of someone with more meagre resources, who seems to be getting some tangible results from the adoption of more advanced methods. Less expensive horses are usually available more cheaply because their legs are splayed outwards and they are generally less impressive specimens, thus less likely to stay sound. The cheaper horses are often also the progeny of stallions who were fragile themselves and unpopular with owners of top-tier mares unwilling to take the risk of getting overly fragile offspring.
Apologies for not addressing the Oscar Whisky v Big Zeb comparison. Colm Murphy reverted Big Zeb to hurdles after two falls, which seemed to be the catalyst for bolstered confidence and improved fencing from that horse. No such steps were taken with Oscar Whisky. Regarding Captain Cutter, see the post above.
On poor Homer Run, it’s true, he didn’t manage to avoid the loose horse. Not being able to see the incident out of the picture in the ATR replay, it’s hard to speculate whether he actually had any hope of getting out of the way. To me it still makes sense that a horse who has been trained at switching direction in rough terrain has a better chance of avoiding disaster in those situations. Nothing is a certainty though.
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