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But would you be punishing the top notchers like Constitution Hill? The better they are, the more a handicap is to their advantage. They cannot be given more than 12 stones (except, I think in some races with unusual conditions) and would always have a few out of the handicap. Anyway, isn’t that what we want to see, where the limit of every champion is? How well earned the plaudits are? Sometimes the answer only comes with defeat.
I really wished you were around here when Bob O started over fences! To me, even from his beginners chase it looked like his back hurt though one would think that would have been found.
I thought the same about Monkfish when he won his RSA, he won it by plenty but his jumping was cramped. I know he subsequently got a tendon injury but I think something else was already going on.“isn’t that what we want to see, where the limit of every champion is?”
Um. Maybe. Only once per season though. I don’t mean I think the good ones should only have their darling selves beaten once or twice a season but I think the 3 mile chasers especially can only really push far into the red zone, win or lose- Native River vs Might Bite , Thistlecrack vs Many Clouds- about once a year.
Constitution Hill will have to give Honeysuckle 7 lbs due to the mares allowance – a whole different subject!
Not sure there is any fair way either way because if you have a G1 horse that is a significantly better than the ones he faces in said races off level weights then it is almost a handicap in reverse to the inferiorly rated horses.
When Kauto beat Madison Du Berlais & Barbers Shop for his 4th King George by 36L & 37L respectively he was officially rated 17lbs & 30lbs better than the pair of them, so unless he massively underperformed they really had little to no chance of beating him running off level weights.
Again using Kauto for reference, in the 2007 Old Roan Chase he had to give 14lbs to Monet’s Garden and got beaten 1.5L but 4 months later he faced him off level weights in the Ascot Chase and easily beat him 8L.
Back in the day when there were very few level weight races around the top horses pretty much had little choice but to run in big valuable handicaps under big weights and that more often than them winning a championship race(s) off level weight was what defined their greatness: the likes of Arkle, Mill House, Flyingbolt, Crisp, Red Rum, Sea Pigeon, Burrough Hill Lad, Dessie, Well Chief, Denman and just this Saturday L’Homme Presse are just a few that enhanced their reputation because of putting up big weight carrying performances.
I doubt turning all graded races into handicaps is even a starter but maybe trialing a few selected graded races and turning them into limited handicaps or maybe even making brand new races with a significant winners prize money (which is likely to be the only draw for some connections to take up the challenge) could be an option to try and entice the top horses into running.
Yes this would likely find out just how good some of the media over hyped horses really are but I very much doubt the top connections are going to want to open their stars up to that kind of test when they can stack the deck more in their own favour with level weight races in small fields.
Too much subjectivity comes into play when trying to judge performances in the same race that are not racing off level weights. It just seems much simpler to me for championship races to be decided off of level weights.
Even then there are issues such as weight for age, mares’ allowances etc. that provoke plenty of contention.
Would these races shorten careers ? , I keep going on about how the GC is a horse breaker , would these handicaps do similar and potentially limit a horses career , is l homme presse more or less likely to win a GC after Saturday
Usual guidance is that a sound horse can comfortably carry 20% of its bodyweight. 168lbs certainly won’t hurt a 1200lb Thoroughbred. The difference in weights may slow them down by a few lengths over the course of the race (which is the point of a handicap) but the weight itself not going to “break” a horse physically. Otherwise with as much weight as they piled on Flatterer back in the day (no 12-stone limit) he would’ve crumpled into dust. https://www.racingmuseum.org/sites/default/files/hall-of-fame/horse/past-performances/Flatterer.pdf
Constitution Hill will already have to concede the IMO generous (7lb as opposed to 3lb on the Flat) NH weight-for-gender allowance to Honeysuckle.
I’d like to see them meet in a conventional Grade 1 before thinking about asking him to concede lumps if of weight to her in any future encounters.
There are too many Graded races generally, and a few that were formerly Limited Handicaps should be restored to that status, but the Grade 1 Crown Jewels at the Cheltenham Festival should be left as they are.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I wouldn’t make all graded races handicaps, but I’d make a change to the ‘pattern’ especially in the first half of the season.
Each division has 2 Gd1 races; one around Christmas/ New Year, the others at Cheltenham or Aintree, but not both.
So the Betfair (Lancashire) Chase would get binned (or moved elsewhere), and more money for the Hennessy. The King George would be the half season 3m Gd1. Similarly, the Christmas Hdle would be the 2m half season Championship. Other 2m hurdles would be Gd2, or possibly Ltd H’Caps.
I’d keep the Tingle Creek as the 2m Chase Gd1, so the Clarence House would become a Ltd H’Cap.I’d actually bin the Gd1 races for novices in the first half of the season. Races like the Challow, Tolworth, etc make them either Gd2, or just a conditions race. The prize money is also a joke; you wouldn’t expect to see a Gp1 2yo race giving less than £40,000 to the winner….
As long as it applies to the flat, I may change my mind
imagine the tears when Frankel lost to Zoffany
all hail King Zoffany..
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Ditch the Betfair Chase, boosting the Hennessy, make the Tingle Creek a Limited Handicap Chase, ditto the Game Spirit.
In fact, the only level weights/weight-for-age/weight-for-gender 2m Chase in Britain should be the Champion Chase.
All the other Graded 2m Chases should be Limited Handicaps or even Open Handicaps.
And the only level weights/weight-for-age/weight-for-gender 3m Chase and 3m2f110yds Chase in Britain should be the King George and the Cheltenham Gold Cup.
Same deal over hurdles – there’s a case for saying only the Fighting Fifth, Christmas and Champion Hurdles at 2m and only the Long Walk and Stayers’ Hurdles should be level weights/weight-for-age/weight-for-gender and every other existing Pattern event over timber should be a Limited or Open Handicap.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The question is though
would it increase or decrease everything revolving around Cheltenham.?Blackbeard to conquer the World
I can’t imagine too many of the top horses running in these say 2 months before Cheltenham , Cheltenham trial day would be effected surely
“Cheltenham trial day”
Oh, and abolish any meeting or race with the word “trial” it’s title.
All races are races in their own right – just how many races called “Ballymore,” “Albert Bartlett,” “Triumph” or “Supreme” do we need in the Racing Calendar?
I’ll answer that – ONE.
This naming of races after the big race itself is as bad as these owners who call all their horses “Sizing,” “Bollin” or whatever other both monotonously and excruciatingly-repetitive prefix they come up with.
Every horse should have a unique name, every race should have a unique name – and yes, a great many of those races would benefit from a switch to Limited or even Open Handicap status.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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