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Good move. I reckon it will achieve one of the stated aims of attracting more overseas visitors. Also brings forward the Gold Cup by a week so encouraging connections of top horses to run them, as they will have an extra week’s rest before Cheltenham GC. (not that Sizing John needed it this year).
…as they will have an extra week’s rest before Cheltenham GC. (not that Sizing John needed it this year).
Not that Our Duke would need it next year.
This seems like a natural progression but it will end up being another benefit for the Mullins & Gigginstown brigade to gorge on as I don’t see this attracting that many more overseas visitors (not sure how many English challengers they have had down the years at the corresponding meeting).
Remember during January/February time there are a lot of trials races (with small fields that have a lack of depth to them) over here that potential English Cheltenham hopefuls would use as preps rather than risk butting heads with the multiple Mullins & Gigginstown runners they would encounter.
More than likely that this will ensure that the majority of any Irish hopefuls that would be looking to come over here during that period will now probably stay in Ireland for a bigger prize and also not have to worry about the hassle/expense of travelling to England.
Firstly, while the Christmas Festival gets all the hype and credit , and rightly so , great few days of racing (what a great week of sport if you are not working, football and racing and the odd gem of a film like Die Hard on the telly – love Christmas
) , my favourite event to go to is the Irish Gold Cup day in February. Great racing and the weather often begins to improve, ya can see the sun shining through the trees in the lovely parade ring at Leoppy. Ya know that Spring has arrived (even if it is still cold) and of course, it is the last big meeting before Cheltenham.This is a great idea, to a period that is already relatively rock solid card and the Irish Champion Hurdle a few weeks before that
Saying that, the Irish Gold Cup, despite producing a great winner, was not a great race despite Don Poli being in it. Horrendous pace in the race. You could imagine that a track like Leopardstown would be kind to any horse that would go to Kempton .It is well placed in February where there isn’t that much top top top class racing going on in the divisions that the Irish meeting cater for. Add a few big money handicaps, the likes of JJ O’Neill would be mad to miss it. Henderson and Nicholls (well, in his pomp, sure he boasted about being Irish Trainers Champion after a few good wins in Galway and his good record at Royal Down) have often done well when they came over.
This seems like a natural progression but it will end up being another benefit for the Mullins & Gigginstown brigade to gorge on
Maybe, but never a reason to try something new , for the future. The last time Willie Mullins won the Irish Gold Cup was 2013. That is a long time
2014 was the last time a Gigginstown horse won beating none other than Tidal BaySure those two groups did well enough in England in the last 2 years…………….
as I don’t see this attracting that many more overseas visitors (not sure how many English challengers they have had down the years at the corresponding meeting).
Over the years, Nicholls and Henderson brought over some of their best horses to Ireland for these races (mostly Christmas ones though) If there is money to be won, and they have good enough horses, they will come. Who cares about Sandown in February or Ascot in January ?
Remember during January/February time there are a lot of trials races
Irish Gold Cup and the Irish Champion Hurdle is not a “trial” race anymore than the King George isMore than likely that this will ensure that the majority of any Irish hopefuls that would be looking to come over here during that period will now probably stay in Ireland for a bigger prize and also not have to worry about the hassle/expense of travelling to England.
Over the years, the only reason that Irish horses went over to the likes of the King George of St Stephens (Boxing Day) or the Group 2 trials at Cheltenham or Group 1s at Ascot were either (a) suitable ground conditions (b) test the horse(s) at Chelteham eg Hardy Eustace (c) They were chasing British Trainers Championships (d) Prize money, and belief that the English field was ripe for raiding
If horses don’t get their suitable ground they ain’t going to run. If the fields are too competitive in Ireland or it is too early to put their horse up against Mullins and co (I am referring to Irish trained horses) they will continue to try out handy enough races like the Group 1 at Newcastle or the odd run at Sandown (eg Special Tiara )
Interesting that this further boost to Irish Jumps racing was announced shortly after public complaints from trainers regarding the Irish Flat programme. Between the Punchestown festival and June 14 there were 198 Jumps races run in Ireland compared to 196 Flat, the average field sizes in that period: Jumps 12.61; Flat 10.96. The breakdown of June/July/August Irish fixtures is: Flat 57; Jumps 41; Mixed 16.
I think it is true that Ireland has traditionally leaned more towards Jumps than Flat, but perhaps never more so than currently. There is very probably a connection between this and that Irish-trained horses dominate at the British Jumps festivals their connections target (e.g. Cheltenham 2017). I know this does not bother some people, however, it would be beneficial to reward the support shown throughout the core British Jumps season by viewers (on course and TV) with greater success at such festivals. Therefore, I believe British racing should gravitate more towards the Irish model in terms of proportion of fixtures during the summer.
After all, in a recent RP poll the British public favoured Jumps over Flat by 71% to 29%. I have argued on other threads that the popularity of Jumps is because objectively, for various reasons, Jumps is the superior sport of the two. So lets give the public more of what they want – all year round!
Interesting that this further boost to Irish Jumps racing was announced shortly after public complaints from trainers regarding the Irish Flat programme. Between the Punchestown festival and June 14 there were 198 Jumps races run in Ireland compared to 196 Flat, the average field sizes in that period: Jumps 12.61; Flat 10.96. The breakdown of June/July/August Irish fixtures is: Flat 57; Jumps 41; Mixed 16.
I think it is true that Ireland has traditionally leaned more towards Jumps than Flat, but perhaps never more so than currently. There is very probably a connection between this and that Irish-trained horses dominate at the British Jumps festivals their connections target (e.g. Cheltenham 2017). I know this does not bother some people, however, it would be beneficial to reward the support shown throughout the core British Jumps season by viewers (on course and TV) with greater success at such festivals. Therefore, I believe British racing should gravitate more towards the Irish model in terms of proportion of fixtures during the summer.
After all, in a recent RP poll the British public favoured Jumps over Flat by 71% to 29%. I have argued on other threads that the popularity of Jumps is because objectively, for various reasons, Jumps is the superior sport of the two. So lets give the public more of what they want – all year round!
“Objectively”
They’d have to drain the reservoirs dry to water the English jumps tracks all summer! Nature does it for us here in the Emerald Isle- it was lashing it down yesterday afternoon.
Tying your post into mine, Twice Over, the greater investment (in many ways) in Jumps (in preference to Flat) by Ireland over Britain will likely see British trainers increasingly reluctant to send runners into the white heat of the top class Irish races whereas Irish connections, not even necessarily with their very best horses, will look to cherry pick more of the relatively weakish British Grade 1’s.
Objectively, The Gun, what might be some reasons why Jumps is more popular than the Flat?
Races are on average longer, allowing more time to get into a race and building the suspense towards the denouement.
The prosecution of a race is adorned with tension, excitement and uncertainty at each of numerous obstacles.
Horses’ careers are longer affording greater identification with, emotional investment in and loyalty, however misplaced(!), to individual animals.
There is no undignified manhandling of the beasts to persuade them to enter the stalls.
There is nothing like the elements of luck produced by draw bias and track position.
In general, there is not remotely the same amount of snobbishness exhibited by characters in the game.
Objectively, The Gun, what might be some reasons why Jumps is more popular than the Flat?
Races are on average longer, allowing more time to get into a race and building the suspense towards the denouement.
The prosecution of a race is adorned with tension, excitement and uncertainty at each of numerous obstacles.
Horses’ careers are longer affording greater identification with, emotional investment in and loyalty, however misplaced(!), to individual animals.
There is no undignified manhandling of the beasts to persuade them to enter the stalls.
There is nothing like the elements of luck produced by draw bias and track position.
In general, there is not remotely the same amount of snobbishness exhibited by characters in the game.
You said it was objectively a superior sport, but you’ve just mentioned reasons why you prefer it. I suggest you go and look up what the word objective means.
Objectively, The Gun, what might be some reasons why Jumps is more popular than the Flat?
Races are on average longer, allowing more time to get into a race and building the suspense towards the denouement.
The prosecution of a race is adorned with tension, excitement and uncertainty at each of numerous obstacles.
Horses’ careers are longer affording greater identification with, emotional investment in and loyalty, however misplaced(!), to individual animals.
There is no undignified manhandling of the beasts to persuade them to enter the stalls.
There is nothing like the elements of luck produced by draw bias and track position.
In general, there is not remotely the same amount of snobbishness exhibited by characters in the game.
You said it was objectively a superior sport, but you’ve just mentioned reasons why you prefer it. I suggest you go and look up what the word objective means.
Don’t be so snobbish, of course I know what ‘objectively’ means!
Yes, of course I personally prefer Jumps but so do the majority of the British public and although the popularity of a thing does not necessarily mean it is intrinsically superior to another thing it is objectively reasonable to start with an assumption that it is when attempting to understand its relative popularity (a popularity I was using to illustrate my original point). So why is Jumps more popular? Isn’t it interesting to try to find out?
I have listed six reasons that, while they might also be my opinion, are objective truths and seem to not only answer the question of why Jumps is more popular but also reinforce the the assumption taken that it is superior.
Which of the six reasons is not an objective truth? What objective reasons/truths would you give to explain why the two sports are at least equal. And if they are equal why then is Jumps more popular?
You’re equating popularity with superiority. Football is way more popular than horse racing, so according to your logic you must believe it to be objectively superior – is that the case?
Comparing football to racing is like comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps Flat and Jumps could be viewed likewise – as two different sports. However, the problem then arises that they are seen as codes of the same sport which has the same governing body, etc. Each competes for allocation of resources. The trade paper, which also covers general sports, has a poll Flat vs Jumps not racing vs whatever. I said “popularity of a thing does not necessarily mean it is intrinsically superior to another thing”. However, I stand by my logic/reasons/truths/argument. I await specific objective truths as to why the Flat is not inferior.
Comparing football to racing is like comparing apples to oranges. Perhaps Flat and Jumps could be viewed likewise – as two different sports. However, the problem then arises that they are seen as codes of the same sport which has the same governing body, etc. Each competes for allocation of resources. The trade paper, which also covers general sports, has a poll Flat vs Jumps not racing vs whatever. I said “popularity of a thing does not necessarily mean it is intrinsically superior to another thing”. However, I stand by my logic/reasons/truths/argument. I await specific objective truths as to why the Flat is not inferior.
Yeesh, there’s no point continuing here.
) , my favourite event to go to is the Irish Gold Cup day in February. Great racing and the weather often begins to improve, ya can see the sun shining through the trees in the lovely parade ring at Leoppy. Ya know that Spring has arrived (even if it is still cold) and of course, it is the last big meeting before Cheltenham.
2014 was the last time a Gigginstown horse won beating none other than Tidal Bay
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