- This topic has 42 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
A relevant comment by Paul Nicholls taken from hos Betfair column:
Chepstow on Saturday was like an open air pub and a lot of the crowd were clearly not interested in the racing whatsoever. Just drinking and making a noise.
I had two sets of owners at Chepstow who said they would rather not go again. It was not good.
There is a happy medium to be struck in attracting new people to the sport – and Saturday at Chepstow was not it.
Just another ‘old duffer’?
AP
so what’s the answer AP? No bars at the racecourse? A quick quiz at the gate & if you can’t answer some simple questions about racing then you can’t come in?
It seems to me that a small portion of the "racing fans" are complaining about
1) there is a much larger group than themselves who go to the racecourse & enjoy themselves and aren’t that bothered about whether a horse stayed the distance, went on the going, who it was bred by etc
2) a small portion of the that crowd every now & again misbehave themselves.
As usual it’s the minority that get reported in the media & the minority that spoils it for the rest.
And it’s the minority of racing fans who are concerned about the "everyone is drunk" nonsense but are being the most vocal. Leading us to believe that our racecourses now resemble a war zone rather than a day’s entertainment.
That same minority also seem unable to grasp that the likes of Newmarket, Newbury etc would go bust if they didn’t have the concert days, even if it’s on a Group Stakes day!
But hey, maybe it will take a few racecourses being turned into housing estates before the "genuine racing fan" can work out that he alone cannot keep the racecourses in business
Laura Thompson stated in her Owner & Breeder article that it might have been better if The xx had been playing rather than Westlife, thereby showing her street cred. Well, sort of.
Which begs the question, if the 73-year-old noted curmudgeon Barry Hills had felt sufficiently uncomfortable to have stormed off during The xx’s set would that also have indicated that racing had got it "badly wrong"?
Perhaps we should leave it to Mr Hills and Ms Thompson to decide what we should listen to.
I think I would rather be surrounded by swooning Westlife fans than by humourless killjoys.
I think I would rather be surrounded by swooning Westlife fans than by humourless killjoys.
I’d rather spend five minutes with Barry Hills discussing horses than five milliseconds listening to most of the pop groups booked by racecourses, Pru.
Both you – and deep sensation – are completely missing the point.
It’s
horse racing.
You, me. Drone. Laura Thompson. Barry Hills. Its not some bizarre Glastonbury, or a Silver Jubilee party, a rave, a fashion parade, Henley, a beauty contest, or an open air boozer,
It’s horse racing. By all means have ALL of the above, but lets not forget the focus – and lets not forget the people who keep it going 24 hours a day, seven days per week and who will be still here when all the p**sheads, fashionistas, tributists, JLS army and Primark suit boys have long gone.
What’s going to happen when we go?
Four of those mentioned above will have turned up at Newbury on that August Saturday and paid between £25 and £80 to attend.
They will expect to be able to see the horses. See the pre-parade ring. The paddock. The horses going down to the start. Access the bookmakers or the Tote. Find a place in the stand to watch the race. Cheer or moan at the outcome of the race. Have a bit to eat, or a sip of beer.
Repeat six times.
None of that was possible at Newbury. Within two years, no purist or regular enthusiast will be attending a Saturday meeting at places like Haydock, Newbury, Newmarket July and York. And look at the races we shall miss.
And what’s happened to the cash injection, Pru? Where’s all this money gone? Can’t wait to see the accounts from some of these racecourses.
Btw, deep sensation, your concluding point about the Daily Mail made me laugh. I’ve had big fights on here about my political beliefs and believe me, you won’t find any of them in that particular organ.
- Total Posts 17716
Deep Sensation is playing Devil’s Advocate here – or at any rate
agent provocateur
. I’ve found his posts on this thread very amusing satires of the chav attitude, which tends to reduce everything in life to a brewer’s benefit. I don’t think he believes a word of it.
The big racecourses are making money, and plenty of it, not losing it. What they want to do is make more, quickly, whilst Gilded Youth still has some loose change tinkling in its pocket.
Deep Sensation has inspired me with a brainwave. Here it is: Lady Gaga should be engaged forthwith for Royal Ascot. She could join in the Royal Procession (perhaps in duet with HMQ once the cavalcade reaches the paddock) and then bawl away all afternoon in one field whilst the real racegoers watch the boring old brown horses going round and round another. That would get the chavs and Hooray Henrys out of the way nicely and allow the Old Duffers (and Paul Nicholls) to settle back in their bath chairs and commodes to enjoy the racing in peace.
A relevant comment by Paul Nicholls taken from hos Betfair column:
Chepstow on Saturday was like an open air pub and a lot of the crowd were clearly not interested in the racing whatsoever. Just drinking and making a noise.
I had two sets of owners at Chepstow who said they would rather not go again. It was not good.
There is a happy medium to be struck in attracting new people to the sport – and Saturday at Chepstow was not it.
Just another ‘old duffer’?
AP
Yeh just add him to the ‘old duffer’ category.
Paul Nicholls is absolutely correct, and in this context, i agree with what he says.
you seem to be missing my points max:
1. Not every normal person who goes racing for a day out at the races, but isn’t interested in the horses, gets totally pissed out of their brains & starts trouble.
2. You, Barry Hills & Laura may have paid £25 – £80 to get in (actually Barry won’t have paid anything & I’ll assume Laura has a press badge) but can’t you understand that the economics don’t add up? Racing fans alone cannot keep racecourses open! There just isn’t enough of them.
This attitude of "we don’t like outsiders, who want to enjoy themselves but aren’t bothered about the horses" comes across as snobbish. The racing media are as much guilty of this as the few people who posts on this & other forums.
As I’ve pointed out earlier, that view is held by a minority of "racing fans" but they are being the most vocal and get the most air-time & print space.
The interesting thing is, the moaners haven’t offered up any ideas how racecourses get bums on seats. As usual, the Great British tradition of moaning for moaning’s sake is evident.
So here’s a test for you or anyone else on here.
You are now the managing director of a racecourse. Last year you had concerts & 30 thousand people attending your racecourse, paying £30 each for a ticket each meeting, of which you had 3.
You’ve now decided to scrap the concerts because a handful of your "genuine racing fans" have moaned that there are too many people there that are not interested in some brown things running up & down a field.
So here’s your mission: how do you replace around 27 thousand people for each of those 3 nights & the money they spent?
To crunch some numbers, 30k x £30 = £900,000. Times that by 3 = £2,700,000 – not calculating the money spent behind the bar, food halls, tote etc.
Now that 3k "genuine racing fans" can wander at their leisure, you now have an income of: 3k x £30 = £270, 000 x 3 = £810, 000.
So how do you make up the £1,890,000 difference?
Instead of moaning about how those horrible "normal people" are prepared to come to "your" sport and enjoy themselves, how about coming up with some ideas about how racecourses get bums on seats?
- Total Posts 17716
it’s the minority of racing fans who are concerned about the "everyone is drunk" nonsense but are being the most vocal. Leading us to believe that our racecourses now resemble a war zone rather than a day’s entertainment.
That same minority also seem unable to grasp that the likes of Newmarket, Newbury etc would go bust if they didn’t have the concert days, even if it’s on a Group Stakes day!
But hey, maybe it will take a few racecourses being turned into housing estates before the "genuine racing fan" can work out that he alone cannot keep the racecourses in business
1. Five years ago Racing was marketing itself, rather successfully, as the "family day out", in contrast to the rowdy testosterone-glutted atmosphere of other mass crowd sports. That policy was successful, but has now been abandoned by some courses in favour of the brewery approach. This is creating a mixed message, and giving racing a hugely bad press. Fact.
2. Wrong. The evidence points squarely the other way. The courses you cite are making money, and plenty of it, without the lethal brewing and pop gig admixture.
3. Wrong. Smaller courses such as Towcester and Pontefract do not resort to brewery gimmicks to keep their heads above water, but use intelligent marketing initiatives guaranteeing them large family crowds and a minimum of riot. There are more racecourses now than there were ten years ago, not less. It can be done.
Well said Deep Sensation. Its the us and them attitude that riddles the game from top to bottom that almost has the sport on its knees.
Its incredible that football clubs can get 40 or 50 thousand people into and out of their facilities week in and week out without too much ado but racing is outraged when its racecourses cant control a few messy drunks.
As ever in Nicholls blog you have a racing insider having a go at racing outsider’s but the people responsible for the mess in the first place are "a fine management team".
Its old duffer’s like Hills with his insider gambles and almost complete disdain for the ordinary racing fan who wants to know about his horses that drive people away from the sport, not racecourses, who in racing are almost entirely unique for at least attempting a recognition of the word
customer
.
The solution to these incidents is of course very simple. Robust security and a zero tolerance to trouble makers. End of.
How dare any jumped up loner tell me or my pals/family what I should or shouldn’t do when I go for a day at the races. Why don’t you all piss off to Hexham.
- Total Posts 102
The point that everyone seems to be missing is that whilst the attendances seem to be fine at certain tracks the betting certainly isnt, why else would the BHA and parties be squealing about the shortfall??
Comparisons with football are meaningless as the prime objective of most of their customers is not to wager upon the outcome of the match(although some do) why else would the levy be set up in the first place if not to compensate for off course activities.
Its become far too diluted, esp with the BHA’S "off course partners" pushing other products, go past most shops now and see what the advertising signs say, half the time you wouldn’t know that racing takes place and punters drawn into them bet on other products more.
- Total Posts 17716
The solution to these incidents is of course very simple. Robust security and a zero tolerance to trouble makers.
I wish it were true.
This "simple solution" to the football crowds problem has involved segregating supporters, fencing people in until the security forces see fit to frog march them out of the ground, and in general reducing civil liberties to zero under blanket police supervision.
In other words, your "zero tolerance" sounds very attractive until you actually put it into practice. "Robust security" would also cost a venue such as Chepstow (not to mention local ratepayers) very much more than they could stomach.
In other words, your "simple" solution is complex, hugely expensive and morally undesirable.
In fact the drink problem may well be moderated once the public sector cuts hit and Youf has less money to throw around: especially if (as seems likely) alcho-taxes are raised very steeply next year.
OK I give up. Despite the facts that
A. Racecourses don’t advertise "come to the races, drink as much as you possibly can & then start a load of fights" the "genuine racing fan" thinks they do, so it must be true.
B. There have been something like 1200 race meetings already this year with very few, if any, incidents of drunken, violent behaviour at the races. But the "genuine racing fan" says everyone who isn’t interested in the horses is a piss head who will start trouble once he has enough beer inside him, so it must be true.
Of course let’s not mention the Cheltenham Festival, where around 40k genuine racing fans spend 4 days getting as drunk as possible, start fights, urinate wherever they can etc. A friend of mine was at the Festival a few years ago & witnessed a guy piss on the guy in front of him in the stands because he was too drunk to make it to the loos in time & didn’t want to lose his space in the grandstand.
I’m sure the guy who suddenly had a warm feeling down the back of his legs was very pleased it was a "genuine racing fan" who was pissing on him, rather than some oike who was only there to see the band on afterwards!
Why don’t you all piss off to Hexham.
Dear old rustic old Yarridge Heights can be as ‘lively’ as the toon on a Friday night when said toonites trundle up the line en masse for one of their weekend gatherings
Younger readers may get the impression from the missives submitted by we old duffers that saturday-at-the-races was once a genteel, tweedy ‘after you, no I insist, thanhk you very much’ gentlemanly and ladylike day out. Not so, it has always been a ‘colourful’ experience: the coming together of the idle ducal reprobates fortunate enough to have the turf to themselves during the ‘working week’ and the hard-grafting, dirty-fingernailed smelly-socks determined to forget about their unidimensional lives for a while.
What has changed – in this funny old duffer’s opinion – is the apparent acceptance of the foul, drunken behaviour that was once very much frowned upon. It was once etched into the genetic make-up of the hardest and heaviest drinkers that you maintained at least a semblance of civility even when seriously under the weather. Making a complete tit of yourself – no problem; violent, crass, frightening behaviour a no no that once perpetrated would haunt you for months possibly years and see you barred from all but the most desperate drinking dives.
The ‘anything goes’ laissez-faire acceptance of the vile drunk is not unique to the weekend race meet; it is no more than an extension and reflection of our town and city centres at weekends, which have been rendered ‘no go’ areas for anyone with an ounce of civility within them
My dear old rustic old York: linger awhile there amidst its ancient charms of a weekend night
no one here gets out alive
Pinza
Football clubs know the value of customer comfort and safety and do the necessary to provide it. The tribal and regional affiliation inherent in a typical football supporter make this a much larger task to accomplish, yet the clubs do it week in week out with almost zero fuss. You mess up at Anfield your out, simple (they did away with fences years ago by the way).
The potential for trouble and incidents at racecourse’s are minuscule in comparison. Racecourses should at this stage have a good profile of their customer base on a meeting to meeting basis and enhance security as they see fit. Rocket science it aint.
Derogatory references on this thread to customers sex, age-group, musical tastes and the stores they buy their suits in, do nothing to advance any argument, in fact it says more about the posters themselves.
If you meet Laura and The xx’s in the rain at Hexham tell them to cheer up ffs.
Good stuff, Drone. As you say a sad reflection on society. I’ve been to Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Highbury and never had a moments trouble. The atmosphere at The Valley a few years ago was positively family.
Perhaps racing could get some return security feedback for the (ahem) world class integrity advice it provides to other sports.
Nobody wants to be terrorized at a public sporting event but surely there’s a middle ground?
- Total Posts 102
So presumably these racecourses that have done so well out of concerts will be able to withstand a reduction in their levy grant???
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.