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As interesting as your post is Equi it loses all credibility when you mention the incredible bets as if there was some kind of skulldugery behind JT ride.
When you consider Garde Champetre has won 4 out of 6 races in the last 11 months and L’Ami has won nothing under rules in 20 outings that would be a big plus to the former…….when you add to that he finished over 5 length in front of L’ami giving him 12 lbs and was set to give him only 3lbs the other day on paper, he was a stone wall certainty to beat the horse.
Considering he is owned by JP who loves a punt and obviously had to fancy the winner big time, I can see nothing incredible about the bets struck.
So basically you are talking absolute rubbish and the bets should not even enter into the equation. Neither should whether I backed the horse or not, which I have never said a word about one way or the other.
If you think JP would take the time to call me in Thailand to tell me to back one of his then youare absolutely crazy. He pays the bills not me and I am entitled to know nothing about the man’s business…….nor would I dare to ask Jonjo about any horse belonging to the man.
If I am told that is one thing but the golden rule is don’t ask….so if I did bet the horse I bet him off my own back and had no idea who fancied what.
The way it turned out no one need know anything and all they had to do was look and anyone with half a brain could see the horse was a good thing. Punters tend to get stuck intothem if you hadn’t noticed
No more discussion on this for me…..It’s dead and buried over and done and we should agree to differ……old saying "win an argument lose a friend" and this thread is heading that way if it continues….my brain is melting
Anyway I got paid out and don’t give a hoot
I wish!!! never had a brass penny on the horse….not my type of race is it?
.Which is true you will never know
I’ll be honest, I haven’t seen the race but have heard of some of the fallout from it. I’m not a big fan of these races and find the fact that AP McCoy does not ride any of McManus horses that run in them a little strange, even given the fact the amateurs that do are used probably as much to do with the fact they also ride them in points and are the only ones eligible to ride them in banks races. (long sentence, sorry
) But, how often when Irish bumper horses come over here are the amateurs jocked off for seasoned pros? All that said though, I did read at least 2 pieces with a Bolger stating quite strongly that Garde would win and that he was the "better" horse, so punters had no excuses and if it was plot, it wasn’t a secret one in terms of finding the winner.Are you saying MCFC, that it is o.k. not to try your hardest on the second if the trainer has told the public he believes the other one has the better chance?
Mark
Please call me Stan, MCFC is my football team or at least the one I support. As I said I didn’t see the race so can’t really comment on how it was run, but if a trainer tells the world which one of his to back and they back the other and the one he tells them to back wins, its hard to have a go at the trainer or jockeys. L’Ami is not a straightforward horse so if he was ridden tenderly it may be because they felt that was the best thing for him. I don’t know, if I see the race I will be in a better position to talk about it, but my gut instinct tells me losing punters are talking through their pockets as usual and this time its nobody’sd blame but their own, especially as the trainer put them on the right horse not as is usually the case, off it.
Mick Fitz said before the race that he’d told the jockey to ride him differently, saying that he didn’t like to be crowded by other horses; maybe L’Ami reacted to the proximity of Garde Champetre at the last fence..I haven’t had a chance to watch the race again, but will avoid having bets on this sort of race in the future…[not that I ever win anyway]
Firefox/numbersix/whateveryou’recallingyourselftoday, I won’t have you harrass me on this forum the way you tried on another.
We’ve already had one person on here erroneously accuse me of being someone I’m not and I’m not about to get into any guessing games nor am I going to relate to you, or anyone on a public forum, my life history. I do wonder why you are so obsessed over digging into who I am but I have no intention to play games nor enter into discussions with you, it has nothing to do with you who I am and I thank you to respect my privacy and leave me alone.
There are enough people on here who know me who also know that what I say I have done is not fiction, which is good enough for me. I don’t feel I have anything to prove to anyone I’m afraid.
Are you saying MCFC, that it is o.k. not to try your hardest on the second if the trainer has told the public he believes the other one has the better chance?
Mark
Please call me Stan, MCFC is my football team or at least the one I support. As I said I didn’t see the race so can’t really comment on how it was run, but if a trainer tells the world which one of his to back and they back the other and the one he tells them to back wins, its hard to have a go at the trainer or jockeys. L’Ami is not a straightforward horse so if he was ridden tenderly it may be because they felt that was the best thing for him. I don’t know, if I see the race I will be in a better position to talk about it, but my gut instinct tells me losing punters are talking through their pockets as usual and this time its nobody’sd blame but their own, especially as the trainer put them on the right horse not as is usually the case, off it.
Stan,
I know what you mean, there are many punters who do talk out of their pockets. Trouble is I do not bet in x-country races, not talking as a losing punter and am sure many others are not. Just as one who believes every jockey should be trying their hardest to win. I wants to see fair racing, no matter what the trainer has said before the race. L’Ami may not be straightforward but he certainly is not a rogue, does not have the dreaded Timeform squiggle. If you had seen the race Stan, I think you’d have a different stance.
Mark
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
I can state with some certainty that I, for one, am not talking through my pocket – cross-country races don’t really appeal to me as a betting medium – but how you can suggest that some are, MCFC, without having seen the event in question, is beyond me.
L’Ami certainly looked to benefit from the change in tactics, and whilst Enda Bolger may have sincerely believed that Garde Champetre was the McManus horse to be on, actual events seem to disagree.
I can imagine the pressure of knowing you’re going too well on a horse the owner hasn’t backed, whilst the one he has labours two lengths behind, is a touch unnerving.
Its "Fist" that keeps this thread going, because it seems to me that everybody who has watched "the race" agrees that it stinks, and it would also seem that most of us never even had a bet in it, thats what makes it so incredible, we the racing public have spotted the same incident and we are all of the same opinion! Apart from "The Fist" i just wonder if the transmission in Bangkok has perhaps affected the signal quality received by Fists 50" HD Sony!
So why is it s..te Fist?
And you say we do not explain ourselves.
Or is this just a realisation of losing the arguement. Having to result to swearing, without explanation.
Can you answer a few of AP’s points too Fist? In my, AP and many others opinion JT was not seen to be making sufficient effort. To a degree that should have been looked in to. So can you tell us why his effort appeared less than it should be?
No, I thought not.
Did you ever answer my question, about whether you expected L’Ami to have such a considerate ride if upsides one that is not an owner companion? No, thought not.
Oh and I doubt if AP has had much experience of race riding, or Timeform Jim McGrath. Just because people have no race riding experience does not mean their opinion is s..te. So please give reasons and enlighten us.
O.K. Fist, am bracing myself for more abuse, what’s it going to be this time?
Mark
Ginge you can’t just ask a horse to jump at the same time as another horse you have to be on the right stride. Doing as you suggested JT would have been sent into orbit and the horse could well be in heaven by now loooking down saying it was Ginge’s fault
I can’t argue that JT was on the wrong stride and had to correct his horse.. Could be he changed his legs approaching the fence when Nina came upsides on the approach or it could have been just bad judgement by JT. Whatever it was that caused JT to jump it slower than the winner was not down to JT taking a deliberate pull at the horse so Nina could pass him.
Nina met it running JT never but that is often the case when you are coming from behind and it gives you a huge advantage at times. It may not sit well with some people but Jockeys will often half lap another horse to get them to take off at the wrong time and try and force them into errors……you have seen it thousands of times and perhaps not realsed it……….it happens out in the country it happens even more coming to the last couple of fences.
So the last thing on earth a jockey wants a horse to do is take off at the same time as another horse. who is on different stride to him.
Hope you now undertstand how silly your statement was
We have success! So JT did give L’Ami a POOR RIDE then. At last he admits it.
"Half lengthing" it is called Fist Golden Freeze on Carvills Hill (allegedly) and all that. I know all about it, but this was not a case of that. The two were on the same stride going in to the fence, where Nina saw a stride and JT (apparently) did not. Choosing instead to take a pull, in the (apparent) belief he was on the wrong stride. I saw no change of stride by the horse what so ever. As you say Fist, bad judgement, a poor ride.
Mark
Then go back and watch it gain…..I have mny times…it’s still up on the Chanel4 site asI type….He definitaly changes his legs going to the last which is something horses who are starting to get a bit weary often do……….watching it again can’t agree it was bad ride…. Sorry JT gave him a good ride if anything!!!!
And you messed up again dropping names. JimMcGRath, you should know, worked with Bill Marshall was a decent rider but never made the grade. He has also ridden more horses at various yards in his younger days than you have had hot dinners mate.
It seems Fist was the only one of us to have a bet.
Although he has not said so directly. For someone who believed Garde Champetre was a good thing, he’d be an idiot if he didn’t.
Could it be Fist, your pocket doing the talking here?
It was you Fist who said it could be bad judgement on JT’s part, now you are going back on that.
I don’t know everything about Jim McGrath Fist. Was aware he had some riding experience but it was race riding experience the question reffered to. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
I see no changing of legs.
Was that racing experience at Bill Marshall’s Sussex base?Mark
Value Is EverythingI’m not so sure Fist backed the winner because if he had then I tend to think he’d be more magnaminous about his success and be sharing some empathy with those who lost. On the other hand, perhaps I credit him with too much compassion for his fellow compatriots? Who knows Fist best, but Fist himself? The name, Fist of Fury, are you a martial arts expert, Fist, or just a con-artist? No offence intended.
Sorry JT gave him a good ride if anything!!!!
FOF, I think you must have been watching a different race, I really do! I had no bet, only watching it on the evening replay afterwards, and was gobsmacked.
I agree it is very possible L’Ami may not have won, but he certainly was not given maximum assistance from the saddle, and that’s surely without question?
However much I watch, I can’t sway from believing anything other than the horse was ridden for second place, once Garde Champetre was seen to be on the premises. And if the latter hadn’t been there, I’m convinced the riding of L’Ami after the last fence would have been markedly different!
True to his words earlier, Fist is not rising to the bait and pursuing this thread. He’s exhausted all his arguments and himself.
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Whilst we are on the subject of bad rides letst lift the mood with a good ride , coolness as personified with Shane Kelly on Pezula Bay at Lingfield on Tuesday. Worth a watch.
I’m not so sure Fist backed the winner because if he had then I tend to think he’d be more magnaminous about his success and be sharing some empathy with those who lost. On the other hand, perhaps I credit him with too much compassion for his fellow compatriots? Who knows Fist best, but Fist himself? The name, Fist of Fury, are you a martial arts expert, Fist, or just a con-artist? No offence intended.
Con Artist-Martiaial Artists nice line
No offence taken mate and happy to tell you how I got the name..Expert? That word is used way too often in MA but I was trained and was graded by real experts" Trained with Sensie Tommy Morris in Glassford Street Glasgow just prior to Enter The Dragon being released when there were about 60 members there. 6000 others joined in when Bruce hit the big screen. Trained in Shukokai Karate for a total of 15 years and was lucky to have trained for a short time with with Japanes legend,the late Sensie Shigeru Kimura.I receiveda grading from him that lasted 4 days which was the toughest thing I ever did in my life . Tried Aikaido for a time but was useless then did some Jeet Kun Do in the UK. Later I joined Sifu Mark Stewart here in Bangkok ……for those that don’t know Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee’s art and Mark trained with Dan Inosanto who was left his legacy. Dan inititally tought bruce to use nunchakas he the guy with the headband Bruce fought in Game of death. Mark Stewart (the boxer rebellion) is without doubt the best fight I ever came across and used to kicks Dan’s backside for fun…Mark told me I couldn’t kick my way out of paper bag but I had very fast hands…the name came from him and sort of stuck…Just a note toanyone who fancys having a go……if you want to compete in games go learn some Karate it great fun but if you want to leant how to fight take up Jeet Kun Do where they play for keeps, hence the reason Bruce never took part in Kumite (fighting competitions).Sorry about the switch so no more of that and back to the question at hand……….unlike Ginge you don’t assume things and just rant for the sake of ranting so I will end the suspense
…….you are perfectly correct I never had one brass penny on the horse…….can’t even say I knew he was running until after the event.It seems Fist was the only one of us to have a bet.
Although he has not said so directly. For someone who believed Garde Champetre was a good thing, he’d be an idiot if he didn’t.
Could it be Fist, your pocket doing the talking here?
It was you Fist who said it could be bad judgement on JT’s part, now you are going back on that.
I don’t know everything about Jim McGrath Fist. Was aware he had some riding experience but it was race riding experience the question reffered to. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
I see no changing of legs.
Was that racing experience at Bill Marshall’s Sussex base?Mark
I watched the race again Ginge and could be became wasn’t!!! get it?
Bill Marshall trained in Whitsbury near the Cranbourne Chase which is in Hampshire Ginge
I get it, you have changed your mind again Fist.
I might be wrong about Bill Marshall, just that a friend of mine said he lived somewhere near Goodwood for a time. Did he move to the Windies?
Mark
Value Is Everything
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