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Possibly right…
But I wonder if his ordinary and rather deliberate jumping would have been so pronounced if trained by …dare i say… H knight…for instance?
For me, certain trainers simply develop that (rather major) part of the horses armoury better than others
Quote: from clivex on 12:05 pm on Sep. 4, 2006[br]
Beef Or Salmon doesn’t travel – simple as that. And whilst I’d agree that it’s an Achilles Heel which has prevented him from reaching his fullest potential, it’s folly to discount those performances under his optimum conditions
Season not underway yet and here we are again :)
But has there ever been a jumper who so comprehensively fails when everything isnt just so?
And, Grass, that is some "achilles heel".
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Comprehensively….like second to kingscliff or fast finishing fourth in a gold cup?
Not sure why we are discussing him now anyway since he is gettin on a bit and over the last year or so has been losing the speed he had earlier in his life. Then again, nothing much around over here to beat him in soft ground is there??
SHL
Agree with their view that Beef or Salmon was the best staying chaser last season, a view I suggested in March.
Quite an achievement for a horse that won 2/7 chases :)
If I was War of attrition’s owner, i would be very cross…
Mind you…he usually is anyway
Grassy "Staying"? Well Chief can’t lay claim to that title…
KK was beaten over 2m 6f the first day and there was blatantly something wrong with the horse the next time .. My bet is that it is between WOA and KK as to who the best chaser is but personally KK would still carry my money.. He would undoubtedly have gone off favourite for the Gold Cup had he been fit..
In relation to BOS, the amount of stick people gave the great best mate on here for not being run in handicaps is applicable to BOS in that the horse has to have optimum conditions to run anywhere near it’s best and can’t produce when not given his conditions.. If BM should have run in handicaps to prove his greatness (A notion never applied to Flat racing?) in my book BOS needs to prove himself in other conditions to lay claim to being the best in training…
KK is the best jumper of a fence in full flight i’ve seen in recent years…
4 wins out of 14 in past two seasons…wonderful stuff from the "best staying chaser"
But given that small field slogs around leopardstown in heavy conditions are the pinnacle of the game, you do have a point Grass
;)
It si funny though isnt it?
Best Mate when beaten in the Lexus had people jumping up and down and shrieking about how he wasnt all that anyway but when BOS gets stuffed time and again all we hear about is how the poor big girls blouse didnt have quite the right ground and the course was too far from home and there were these horrible fences and there were all these other horses invading his space etc etc
4 wins in 14 runs…
Now if Best mate, WOA or KK had that record?????
This thread is on 4 pages and your annual haven’t even arrived yet:biggrin:
One point that struck me when looking at the top rated’s page is that 5 of the 10 awards went to horses for performances that weren’t at the Cheltenham Festival. Perhaps the meeting isn’t the bee all and end all that some say.
Seeing as we have done the Beef or Salmon debate to death, what do you make of their 2m ratings? Kauto Star 166+ and Newmill 165p. Personally I think Newmill is a better horse, has certainly done more. I’m not convinced the Haldon Gold Cup form or the Tingle Creek are too solid. Monkerhostin was the only one to goive his running in the former whilst the latter looks unreliable, Ashleybrook sustaining an injury in the Haldon Gold Cup but still finishing second and Oneway again seeming to run to a figure higher than he ever has in a handicap.
KK has won two king georges, finshed second in the arkle (over an inadequate 2m) to what you claim to be the best chaser in training, wins a gold cup at it’s first attempt and wins a few more G1 chases in between. In his first chase over 3m he is beaten by BOS, fair enough. He then stuffs beef or salmon over what is an inaedquate 2m 4f for BOS. one all. KK then wins the GC by 5 lengths with BOS about a lap behind.. The only other time they are beaten by Kingscliff which KK then proves to be not his running (I think he lost his shoes). So one vs matches they are probably equal however KK has won the more significant races in bigger fields proving his ability to jump, travel and cope with a variety of conditions.
I just can’t see how BOS can be labelled the best staying chaser. KK would have finished in front of him again in the GC this year had he run. Would you contest that?
PS Edredon Bleu was always in front where it’s often that bit easier to jump KK can lead, be dropped out or sit with the pace.. 2nd in tje Arkle and supreme novices shows he has pace to burn coupled with an obvious ability to stay.. BOS can’t jump at real pace, and often gets tapped for toe on anything other than soft or heavy.
Quote: from clivex on 10:20 am on Sep. 7, 2006[br]It si funny though isnt it?
Best Mate when beaten in the Lexus had people jumping up and down and shrieking about how he wasnt all that anyway but when BOS gets stuffed time and again all we hear about is how the poor big girls blouse didnt have quite the right ground and the course was too far from home and there were these horrible fences and there were all these other horses invading his space etc etc
4 wins in 14 runs…
Now if Best mate, WOA or KK had that record?????
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Once again clivex, your dangerously wondering close to xenophobia. BTW, I think most people know that BEst Mate wasnt all that on softish ground. Not terribly unlike WOA actually. IT never surprises me of course how good horses get more knockers then average horses and this has been true in recent years of both BOS and Best Mate.
WOA and Kicking king should…all things holding up now be the immediate future of chasing in Ireland anyway but BOS has been top class. over here anyway.
SHL
Grassy – you dont like KK. You never have. He’ll be back soon and he’ll have you eating your words. BoS will probably retire halfway through the season. ;)
Once again clivex, your dangerously wondering close to xenophobia
Oh really?
Now if Best mate, WOA or KK had that record?????
My quote. Funnily enough i think two out oif the three horses above are Irish
Still. U believe what you want to believe
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