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Behave yourself, Zark.
Ajtebi clearly and deliberately restrained Debussy quite hard, and even took a look round to see the plan wasn’t working, before taking it up.
Frankie would obviously have known the plan, so he’s hardly going to give the others a lead, either.What is the pace going to be like?
Rewilding won the Prince Of Wales last time out @ 1m2f beating So You Think.
Workforce got beat in the Eclipse by So You Think @ 1m2f.
St Nicholas Abbey won @ 1m5f and 1m4f this year.
Nathaniel won @ 1m4f and is a staying type.
Would it be in Rewilding’s favour for his stable companion pacemaker to make a slow pace?
Why should Godolphin make the pace at a speed which helps their rivals? It was a distinct possibility if not probability they were going to slow it down.
Zark,
See above, I answered why Godolphin might make it a slow pace before they did it. There was every reason to. It wasn’t that they wanted to make the whole race slow, just the early part. To effectively make it (stamina-wise) in to a 1m2f race. Although it is true prominent runners have an advantage in slowly run races, those with most speed are also favoured by such tactics. Rewilding was at his best in the 10 furlong Prince Of Wales, Workforce arguabley a bit below his in the Eclipse and St Nich needs at least 1m4f. Nathaniel also looked a stayer in his previous starts.As for Debussey, he did not
need
to act right-handed to do pace-making duties. Ajtebi could easily have let the horse go left, in to the middle of the track, and
still
made the running at a good pace. But he chose not to, instead taking a deliberate pull so as to go slow early on.
Rewilding went wrong too far out to know where he’d finish. We know from the Prince Of Wales and Sheema Classic how much he finds off the bridle. So these tactics might or might not have worked.
Value Is EverythingIf Godolphin didn’t care about the pace, why bother declaring Debussy at the 48-hour stage? Frankie is one of the best front-running jockeys in the world, and it’d be a bonus if he was on the fastest horse in the race (which I believe Workforce is/was).
That way he’s setting a slow gallop which obviously wouldn’t suit 2 of his 3 rivals and he’s got track position on the fastest/2nd fastest horse in the race.
Don’t want to watch the race again but what would have been the point of Ajtebi letting Debussy stride on at the pace the horse wanted and go ten or twelve lengths clear which would mean that he would only be ignored by the rest of the field? If Debussy had not have been in there at all then the race would have been run at an even slower pace.
Personally, I think Ajtebi is one of the worst (if not the worst) riders out there without a claim, but in this instance he did what they asked of him and gradually wound it up after getting to the front. We’ll sadly never know what the outcome would have been had Rewilding not broken a leg. Just like we’ll never know if St Nicholas Abbey would have done better with a more experienced rider or if Workforce would have won if keeping straight.
The Godolfin pacemaker violated both the spirit and the rule for pacemakers.And the Sheik is a real sportsman according to some.If trained by Ballydoyle you can imagine the uproar.The pacemaker was intended to slow down the race!!.Poetic justice they sadly call such an outcome.I anticipate a statement from the authorities on the matter.Incidentally does Stoute ever accept defeat without making excuses? Firstly in the Derby now this.Lost a shoe,got kicked by another horse,quit the whining and get over it.
Poetic justice that the horse died?
As for Stoute making excuses, he surely cannot hold a candle to the Coolmore Master of Hype O’Brien, who claimed to have undercooked So You Think in the Prince of Wales, despite the horse having won a couple of Group races in the previous six weeks. A couple of weeks later he was hyped, sorry, cooked to perfection for the Eclipse but only managed to beat Sri Putra by a smaller margin than he had at Ascot! Quit the whining and get over the all too rare fact that Godolphin had the better horse.
Very good win by Nathaniel but can’t see him beating Workforce in the Arc.
Apparently WF returned with a cut in his foot which explains why went violently to the left. Sort of like getting a paper cut on your finger you don’t feel until moisture hits it then it stings like hell.
We know WF is capable of winning an Arc all we know is that Nathaniel is capable of winning a Group 1 when everything goes his way.
My own thoughts are Workforce won an Arc which wasn’t the strongest. He is not the real deal and lacks real star quality.
I doubt if he or Nathaniel will make much impact in the Arc this year.
The French horse despite getting one of the weirdest rides ever seen at Epsom won with an absolute ton in hand and looks head and shoulders above anything the UK has to offer.
Dear librettist(forgive spelling)I believe you missed the point. After So You Think was beaten Aidan did not attribute his defeat to losing a shoe or to being kicked by another horse but rather to a very different set of circumstances.He did not blame events at all which occured during the race.Read his "excuse" again .
Dear librettist(forgive spelling)I believe you missed the point. After So You Think was beaten Aidan did not attribute his defeat to losing a shoe or to being kicked by another horse but rather to a very different set of circumstances.He did not blame events at all which occured during the race.Read his "excuse" again .
"Listen".
Seems to me AOB had an eye (make that both eyes) on So You Think’s stud value. Do you really expect the trainer to say "listen, So you Think wasn’t good enough"? If he can blame something else for the horse’s defeat (including himself) then he will. With the added bonus, it takes away kudos from the Godolphin winner.
What’s a few words berating oneself when it puts another shed/stable load on a horse’s stud value.
It seems as though after every Group 1 winner the trainer has it’s…
"Listen, he shows so much speed"!Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
He actually blamed So You Think’s Ascot defeat on
"not having worked the horse hard enough"
, then proceeded to win the Eclipse almost 3 weeks later, after – in his own words –
"not doing a thing with him since the POW"
.
Ho hum!Aidan was in fact very honest after the race he lost,no saddle slipping,no shoe falling off ,no bumping or being hurt by another horse,just trainer error. Before the Eclipse he went to the trouble of explaining that the previous hard race had brought the horse to where he did not need to do any more serious work before the Eclipse with him.Could he have been plainer or more honest, is it just that some peopl are refusing to listen?
Believe all that is said by King Coolmore do you Andy?
He’d had two races before the Prince Of Wales, one in a Group 1. Why should the Prince Of Wales bring So You Think on more than his two previous runs?
Value Is EverythingSYS Was never off the bridle in his 1st 2 races in Ireland so he never had to dig into his reserves. In the POW he was at full stride and power so that race might well of brought him to full fitness
Hi Gingertipster,maybe you should take over at Ballydoyle you seem to know more about SYT than Aidan. He admitted to misjudgement,what should he have done? Reminds me of Cash A. "For two dollars the Irish punters want to ride the horse as well as back him."
I for one am not saying Joseph rode poorly.I am saying the task set him was one for a seasoned professional jockey like the best available.Joseph is just a boy with little experience of the tactics called for to win Group One races.To be sent out to compete with Moore,Dettori,Buick was just too much.He seemed mesmerized.For his own good I believe he should have to prove himself as a jockey like other winners of the Irish Apprentice Championship.Like for instance Cathy Gannon.Let him come over to England like Queally or Spencer and prove himself.Ballydoyle owe it to their horses as well as to their apprentices.Take yesterdays race,do you think Fallon would have gotten lost in the middle of the race or allowed the winner to steal so much ground?He was the only jockey to cop on to Murtagh in the English Oaks.Seems like Coolmore are so successful that they don’t have to win anymore.Pity.And Godolfin are so desperate that they will try anything to win.More Pity.
That is a far more accurate post Andyod. Only bit I’d find fault with is the where you intimate that O’Brien
got lost in the middle of the race
. But I guess that’s subjective and it’s not a point worth arguing over. Good post.
Believe all that is said by King Coolmore do you Andy?
He’d had two races before the Prince Of Wales, one in a Group 1. Why should the Prince Of Wales bring So You Think on more than his two previous runs?
The POW was not being used as a prep for other races GingerTipster. The horse was undercooked in both the Mooresfield and the Tatts GC but was still good enough to win. I’d hazard a guess that SYT was even more wound up for Royal Ascot – still undercooked though – and simply wasn’t good enough to win it running at 95%-96% his best. As the POW was a lot tougher assignment than the two previous.
Also I wouldn’t term the POW as an error on Aidan’s behalf. He knew exactly what he was doing and almost stole the race with a horse who was only going to get better as the season progressed. As Ballydoyle know only too well, there’s a certain fallacy in having the best horses peak in mid-June and then getting progressively worse for the rest of the season culminating in below par efforts in races like the Arc and the Classic. So You Think will be different. He’s winning races whilst not quite been fully tuned up. The day of the Arc / Cox Plate / Classic is the day SYT should run his best race.
After SYT won the Tatts Gold Cup, Timeform upped his rating by a pound. So they believed SYT was better than ever. Fully fit.
Isn’t AOB capable of maintaining a horse’s fitness? Of course he is. For sure SYT wasn’t all out to win either race, but after two races he was fully fit in the POW.
The only possible (only possible mind) excuse is Moore went for home too soon after what were already strong early fractions. Favouring those (like Rewilding and Sri Putra) who came from rear.
However, the fact remains, SYT beat Sri Putra further in the POW than he did in the Eclipse. Which again suggests the horse was fully fit at Ascot.
Value Is Everything
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