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Kathy –
I don’t like the way racing is covered up and run any more than anyone else, but the fact remains, the Jockey Club has been in place for the purpose of fixing it for years and they’ve done sod all.
If there’s no obvious way of sorting it out, what good is it going to do moaning about it?
I’ve already said I think the trainers are a disgrace, just didn’t have the energy to write it quite as well as Kathy, but these men should be made examples of. Maybe I look at horse racing through rose tinted glasses but although we all knew there are some dodgy characters in the sport, it was still dissapointing to watch, especially with high profile trainers such as Osborne and Murphy.
Kathy et al, can I just ask you something and expect an honest answer.
When both of these programmes have aired, and the BBC have had their money’s worth, the dust has died etc, do you really think anything will change? NO. It won’t.
If you can come up with a way to fill racing with saints, then by all means go for it. I do NOT like the way racing is run, I do NOT obey simpering to what trainers say, but unfortunately I also do NOT see any way in the foreseeable future that it will change.
And no, I’m not happy about that either. Believe me I am as p***ed off as anyone else about the fact that people are getting screwed over betting tickets, but these programmes are out for their own gains and have no interest in the the sport and once the fuss dies down, it will be back to the grind as per usual.
I’ve yet to watch it as i was at the pub so recorded it.
im with Kathy. I say racing gets bad publicity only and it does – and racing shoots itself in the foot a lot of the time. i know the situation these 3 trainers have been in but basically its exposing the truth and something should be done.
I think they should be made an example of, surely to say ‘we are doing something about it’ but come on, lets be fair. We now live in a world where well over tens of thousands of pounds is being wagered, quite easily on the exchanges on races worth a couple of grand. If you have a 5/1 ish chance going for a £2000 prize, THEORETICALLY you can either try and win the race, and the prizemoney, or just lay it for £10000, become a blatant non trier and make £2000 anyway. Now dont ask me how you make a non-trier, because it isnt my field, and I did say theoretically. I know what is easier, and more certain
Good points made by the forum but what I found annoying about the programme was the sensational way it revealled all these dirty secrets about horse racing.<br>This tabloid tv is brain candy for the masses. If you watch The Simpsons, watch the episode called Homer Badman. It shows up these programmes for what they are. <br>Bring back serious debate and proper investigation.<br>
Well here is a point that no-one has come up with (if i have i’m sorry) where did they get the £££’s to buy the horse was it the BBC’s (our money) or there own ? as far as i can make out they never said who put up the ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Just a thought
Zzass:wave:
My opinions on the programme
-This Kenyon fella had Osbourne, Wintle and Murphy bang to rights…all the ‘we’ve been mis-interpreted’ rubbish won’t stand up…they were on tape openly admitting they fiddled horses, which, esp in the case of Murphy was hardly surprising…he’s up there with Jonjo o’neill and the Ramsdens as undisputed king of the non-trier.
-Half an hour was not long enough for a programme like that, the brunt of what had to be said fell on the trainers, they neglected the role of the jockey in ‘stopping’ a horse, christ, they could have bunged Fallon a few quid and got a live demonstration.
-Its quite obvious that this was meant to shock the occasional punter, as has already been said on the board a fewtimes, many of us are aware of what goes on in racing from time to time, and we (grudgingly) accept it, whether or not the occasional punter will be quite so accomodating we have yet to find out.
-How many owners do you think are in on the scam already, I and a few friends went to view a horse we were interested in, from a modest yard in North Yorkshire (I’ll not mention the name of the trainer…yet!)…and one of my less tactful friends posed a couple of very tactless questions reguarding handicaps etc, and we were told, that even though the horse was quite capable ofwinning a race off its current mark, we shouldn’t back it until a ‘suitable’ race was found, and the handicapper dropped it a little in the weights…i wish i’d have had a hidden camera with me!
-Was it just me, or did that Kenyon fella make a bit of a meal of it when Wintle grabbed his fingers…that scream was quite camp!!!
On reflection I think this whole affair is just very sad for racing in general.<br>At a time when racecources are investing millions in improving facilities and new ventures like attheraces and tax free betting are trying to expose racing to the masses, this whole affair puts the sport in a very poor light.<br>I know the old heads on this board have adopted the ‘nothing new what’s the fuss’ mentality but it’s not the old heads who would have watched the programme with any interest anyway. Kenyon’s programme may have succeeded in putting off those families who go to racing for a day out and are the sport’s target audience at the moment. Why ? because they now know what the seasoned punter has know for years – racing is bent.
I think if the jockey club are seen to do nothing then racing will receive more bad publicity and it won’t be the fault of any TV makers that the bad publicity arises it will be racing itself they can’t just let this go by them ,Ferdy Murphy it has been said didn’t lay the horse at Betfair if this is true then he did lie but it was to prospective owners looking to buy a horse in his yard so either way he lied which makes him look totally stupid and i have to say that Jamie Osborne just doesn’t help himself you would think after all the carry on last time around he would have more sense to say anything like he did,i have also heard people say that the interviewers kept harking back to get the answers they wanted to hear the simple way for the trainers to get involved in that would have been to say we do not resort to those sort of tactics if you wish for something like that to happen i suggest you try elsewhere but all three were more than happy to do what they were asked ,all in all they should be asked in to explain themselves and see what happens from there .
Mark Johnston said it right – the system enables this kind of thing to go on. Those trainers have only themselves to blame as they were caught on tape as clear as anything. The JC warning letter is telling and something should be done.
Yep Kenyon was very camp: "please don’t hit me!"
The general public will never know that there IS a good side to racing at this rate – National and Derby fatalitiles publicised this year and now this race fixing programme. Someone on an earlier thread said there was no point in making a prime time programme on the good things in racing as it wouldn’t draw as big an audience, but at this rate it would do racing some good! It shows what type of people we are – after the bad, sensational, dirty tabloid style news and revealings time after time.
Going back to the subject of the Jockey Club, I know absolutely zero about how racing is policed in other countries.  Do any of them do it better?  Is there anything that can be learnt from elsewhere? ÂÂÂ
<br>Osborne said that the stable don’t mind cheating and that they had an in house man to ride the horses…sadly, we haven’t any proof that Osborne has fixed races….if indeed he has.
Murphy…well, if Betfair are providing evidence that Murphy was lying then he must have been. I don’t know why he’d lie or if he did.
Wintle…this was the more interesting part. He was caught in the act, easy for the JC to do something about it.
My argument is how important is all this handicapping horses stuff.
Warwick: Seattle Alley’s SP was 11/1 The betting shop punter could have easily seen the horse was not fancied.
Fontwell: Seattle Alley was running over 2m6f and the furthest he’d won over was 2m1f. Anyone who backed the horse must have been at least a little mad…it had no chance on the book that day.
Uttoxeter: Here we go. He was pulled up. He wasn’t really in a challenging position when pulled up (from memory…correct me if i’m wrong) and was again running over a trip arguably too far for him.
From a form book point of view, it was not a good idea to back him on any of those runs…it would be interesting to know how much was bet on him.
BUT…Wintle admitted to cheating. Seattle Alley was never in the race at Warwick and was more than likely not prepared for it. The JC should act on the evidence and get Wintle banned from training.
<br>BUT (again) i think there are more important matters that must be dealt with before this handicapping lark.
What happens to all the horses retired from racing each season?
Are there any horses neglected or mistreated in training?
Does doping take place?
I would like to see more done to protect the welfare of the horse rather than the punter TO START WITH. <br>I don’t think the program stunned racing and it told people outside racing what they more than likely knew…racing isn’t 100% straight.
Without the horse, there’s no racing. Without betting there’s no racing.
I’d like to think the safety of the horse was paramount and then i’d like the punter to be given a fair go.
So, although this program wasn’t mind blowing, let’s hope it at leasts prompts the JC club to take some action. If it doesn’t, then racing fans like us have to press the JC.
The one aim we must have is to pull open those big doors that let people in to racing. Those doors are currently shut to anybody outside the industry…it’s a closed world and it’s hard to get in. If we could just let people in and if the JC were open about what they are doing to stop cheating…racing would be better off.
But it all comes down to money. Who cheats the punters? Evidently some trainers and jockeys, bookies maybe.
Basically, i’d like to hear more about what’s being done to protect the welfare of the racehorse. Then i’d like more done to clamp down on non-triers.
I must add one more thing…it would be unrealistic of anyone to suggest we could ever TOTALLY rid racing of cheaters. There is money to be made and where there’s money…there’s a big chance you’ll find corruption.
:clap:
Good call Robgomm – the safety of horses is the most paramount. I always bang on about retirement for racehorses and nothing is ever done.
Welfare is more important than money in this money-dominated society. Interesting angle you took there but it gets everything in perspective. Where will Seattle Alley end up in a few years time?
If i remember rightly did someone not go into the retired racehorses thing a couple of years back and found that some ex racehorses were found to be left in an appalling state,this brings me back to someone i met around 2 years ago it was after a meeting at Hamilton and it was in the pub about 200 yards up the road from the course it was trainer Micky Quinn who had been running horses at the course a nicer more genuine guy you could wish to meet i would say, and i can honestly say i was shocked more than suprised when i read about the state of some of his horses i honestly couldn’t believe that he would have let this happen after the way he spoke about his horses he put them first in everyway as to the way they were treated and to how they were looked after, he genuinely sounded as though he would never do anything that would bring his charges to harm,but as could be seen by subsequent event’s some of his horses did manage to be left in a bit of a state the thing that concerned me about these horses were that they were at the time still running at racecourses if they were in such a bad state why did he get to run them ,i know this may be way off beam but it still lurks in the back of my mind that quinn was never really accepted into the racing set and that they looked to get rid of him as soon as possible put it this way i have spoken to a couple of trainers in bars on the racecourse and never have i seen one like Mick Quinn someone who was prepared to stand and chat with you for more than an hour just chewing the fat and guess what not once did he try to sell us a horse now that has to be a first from a trainer.
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