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Once again we have another race at Kempton where the SP for the winner was much shorter than it should have been!
Tiddliwinks in the 2.55pm at Kempton went off at an SP of 10/11, however, minutes before the race 6/5 & 11/8 was widely available and the Betfair SP was 2.5/1.
The on course/off course bookies are crooks and I can’t believe that they consistently get away with this kind of thing!!
Nice 132% win book and 301% place book (two places!)on the last there. The front four in the betting were clipped three price bands each, the next two were also clipped, leaving just the complete rag ignored by the racketeers.
The tramps have the game by the niagaras.
But, as always, nobody is forced to bet in these contests.
However as long as punters continue to bet in these contests then the bookmakers will continue to extract the urine.
The only way it will change is if punters boycott these races and we all know that ain’t going to happen.
And people wonder why AW racing gets a bad reputation!!!
But, as always, nobody is forced to bet in these contests.
However as long as punters continue to bet in these contests then the bookmakers will continue to extract the urine.
The only way it will change is if punters boycott these races and we all know that ain’t going to happen.
And people wonder why AW racing gets a bad reputation!!!
Boycott is a polite way of saying Avoid like the plague Paul but your post is bang on!
Would the clawback have achieved its aims with 9 of the 14 winners 5/1 and under? Particularly with 4 (almost 5), 8 runner races at Kempton.
But, as always, nobody is forced to bet in these contests.
Not good for racing though is it when we’re supposed to be trying encourage people to go racing as well as bet on it.
Racing for change need to get the basics right first, throw the thieves off the track rather than allow them to fleece punters.1.
But, as always, nobody is forced to bet in these contests.
2.However as long as punters continue to bet in these contests then the bookmakers will continue to extract the urine.
3.The only way it will change is if punters boycott these races and we all know that ain’t going to happen.
4.And people wonder why AW racing gets a bad reputation!!!
Boycott is a polite way of saying Avoid like the plague Paul but your post is bang on!
Such a good post,i would like to address each point Paul-.
1,Correct,but we need the mugs out there to continue to support the infrastructure that in turn supports us more disciplined punters!
2.The bookmakers have adopted these tactics for a long time now and will continue purely on a needs must basis,again the above mugs wont pick up on that anyway,long live the mugs!
3.We dont want that to happen really Paul,as it keeps the Bookmakers where they need to be! Bring on the clowns,i mean the mugs again!
4.Say No More! But it will never have a good reputation as long as it caters for the Bandit,i mean Banded brigade who can exploit the whole concept of All weather racing!Paul your post is completely wrong and extremely blinkered.
This threat is discussing the SPs of the races and nothing more. It is not an attack on the quality of the races nor is it an attack on the prices readily available BEFORE the off.
Tiddliwinks has been a smart and progressive horses this winter as most who bother to watch the races will know. His last drop down to 6f saw him beat a steady improver in Perfect Act who blitzed his field the time before. Tiddliwinks is unexposed over 6f and was bound to win today.
To say that racing like this is preventing new people from going racing is completely blinkered and a disgusting attitude to have on a weekend where the BHA have tried to put everything in place to keep this sport going.
AW races like this are, if anything, a lot EASIER to work out than some of our beloved flat racing and jumps handicaps.
You might not like it but it’s here to stay and if you put the time and attention into this area of racing you can make an absolute killing.
Nobody is forcing anyone to bet at SP. Who bets at SP anymore?!
cmon guys , say something nice about the sandpit , after all its going to be free soon
Bookies will continue to fleece Mugs , forget the racing for change people , they have already been blown out of the water , and have as much credibility at the moment as a bible thumper attending an alice cooper concert in a cross dress outfit
I loved the guy on C4 today when asked by Tommo said that not understanding fractions would not keep young folks away from racing , priceless , as was Macs bombardment of the nerd presenting the RFC view , despite Tanya and the increasingly irritating Alice P , pleading with him to stop ……talk about rocking the boat
Ricky
AW races like this are, if anything, a lot EASIER to work out than some of our beloved flat racing and jumps handicaps.
You might not like it but it’s here to stay and if you put the time and attention into this area of racing you can make an absolute killing.
Nobody is forcing anyone to bet at SP. Who bets at SP anymore?!
I don’t want to get into another all-weather argument but there were five winners of the Scoop6 today one of which won his/her £32,984 from a single £2 bet. So it can’t be that difficult to predict.
cmon guys , say something nice about the sandpit , after all its going to be free soon
Bookies will continue to fleece Mugs , forget the racing for change people , they have already been blown out of the water , and have as much credibility at the moment as a bible thumper attending an alice cooper concert in a cross dress outfit
I loved the guy on C4 today when asked by Tommo said that not understanding fractions would not keep young folks away from racing , priceless , as was Macs bombardment of the nerd presenting the RFC view , despite Tanya and the increasingly irritating Alice P , pleading with him to stop ……talk about rocking the boat
Ricky
Mac was on form today & I think he was absolutely right to call RFC on not having any young people or women on the committee.
On the subject of odds, I don’t think decimals are any easier to understand than fractions.
To stay on topic (sort of), how would 10/11 be described as a decimal?
Paul your post is completely wrong and extremely blinkered.
This threat is discussing the SPs of the races and nothing more. It is not an attack on the quality of the races nor is it an attack on the prices readily available BEFORE the off.
The balance of books throughout betting, in the majority of all-weather races is poor – it just happens this thread highlights SP’s and the pronounced very late fluctuations.
…. and was bound to win today.
perhaps I am missing something but I seem to have missed where you flagged that very point up BEFORE the race
To say that racing like this is preventing new people from going racing is completely blinkered and a disgusting attitude to have on a weekend where the BHA have tried to put everything in place to keep this sport going.
Where did I say it was stopping new people going racing?
AW races like this are, if anything, a lot EASIER to work out than some of our beloved flat racing and jumps handicaps.
Again where did I say it was wasn’t – however as I have said many times before not everyone is obsessed with betting or having a bet. Racing is a sport.
and if you put the time and attention into this area of racing you can make an absolute killing.
You have absolutely no idea how I bet. I agree finding winners in all weather is a hell of a lot easier than elsewhere. However, strange as it may seem, not everyone is obsessed with making money or, as you quaintly put it, wants to "make a killing".
Nobody is forcing anyone to bet at SP. Who bets at SP anymore?!
I would suspect the majoritry of betting shop punters.
To return to a more constructive point, one of the problems with the betting, especially at Kempton, is the relatively snall number of layers, coupled with a small on-course crowd.
This, I believe, means the off course layers have a disproportinate influence on the books.
No Of Bookmakers No Of Meetings
3 3
4 9
5 6
6 9
7 12
8 17
9 4
10 3
11 3
12 3
13 2
14 1
15 4
17 1
18 2
20 1
23 1
29 1The list above shows, for 2009, in the first column the number of layers standing with the second column showing the number of meetings that number of layers. So, for example 12 meetings has only seven layers.
Something else I have noticed at Kempton and I am not sure if there any stats recorded, is not all the layers – even when initially there are very few, stay for all races. So the later races are more prone to "off-course" skewing.
- Total Posts 17716
Once again we have another race at Kempton where the SP for the winner was much shorter than it should have been!
Tiddliwinks in the 2.55pm at Kempton went off at an SP of 10/11, however, minutes before the race 6/5 & 11/8 was widely available and the Betfair SP was 2.5/1.
The on course/off course bookies are crooks and I can’t believe that they consistently get away with this kind of thing!!
Surely this is about off course liabilities. I’ve never been to an a/w meeting but I have read more than once on here that very few bookies turn up. Not that much different to some evening meetings I’ve been to at Hexam.
The way this horse had won his previous race he looked to be the outstanding bet on the card. To be honest I thought he should be around 1/1 money or shorter.
If there isn’t much money around on the track Hills,Ladbrokes etc have taken bundles in their shops as sure as God made little green apples they will lay off a few grand to shorten the horse up. What price you can get on Betfair has nothing to do with what is happening in Ladbrokes in Edinburgh or wherever.
As far as it happening late in the day concerned I was very friendly with the lad who worked for 40 years for William Hill on the Northern tracks. I’ve often stood next to him when he would get a call and instructed to have X amount on such and such. It takes seconds…….he would simply shout over to a couple of the bigger bookies e.g. 3k on such and such and the price has gone immediately.
Put yourself in William Hill’s place. You have taken xxx,xxx for a horse and your books don’t balance as he’s 6/5. You have choice 1. You can send xx,xxx now or 2. Wait until the last minute and see if the on course punters shorten the horse up.
2. is the logical thing to do. Better the punter shortens him up than you use your money. So what you get sometimes like we did today a last minute shortening up for Tiddlewinks
Saying the bookmakers are doing something wrong is a nonsense they are running a business and are entitled to lay off any money they choose. I don’t hear anyone moaning if Ladbrokes lose a 20k on a horse they send money back for.
With all due respect Paul, your comments about stating whether Tiddliwinks would win the race before on this forum is a little strange. It was also one post below yours!
Tiddliwinks was in my four reserves for the 4PP so surely I thought he would win that race? The only thing stopping me putting him in the 4PP selections instead of the reserves was his price so not quite sure where I haven’t said he would win the race?
Regarding the comment about preventing people from going racing, I apologise this was Eddie Case and not you.
Betting shop punters, if they take the time, can take a price off of the screens which are infront of them as they write out their betting slips.
In addition, you seem to be obsessed that my view is one that has to ‘make a killing’ or bet on the races constantly. Quite where have you presumed this from Paul? I’m one who constantly keeps on defending horse racing on other boards left right and centre as a SPORT aswell as on my own blog! Despite my love of all weather racing, particular the Wednesday Kempton meetings which I feel is one of the best midweek meetings of any code, I did not have one solitary bet today.
- Total Posts 17716
cmon guys , say something nice about the sandpit , after all its going to be free soon
Bookies will continue to fleece Mugs , forget the racing for change people , they have already been blown out of the water , and have as much credibility at the moment as a bible thumper attending an alice cooper concert in a cross dress outfit
I loved the guy on C4 today when asked by Tommo said that not understanding fractions would not keep young folks away from racing , priceless , as was Macs bombardment of the nerd presenting the RFC view , despite Tanya and the increasingly irritating Alice P , pleading with him to stop ……talk about rocking the boat
Ricky
Mac was on form today & I think he was absolutely right to call RFC on not having any young people or women on the committee.
On the subject of odds, I don’t think decimals are any easier to understand than fractions.
To stay on topic (sort of), how would 10/11 be described as a decimal?
1100 quid at 1.91 would get you 1001 quid 10/11 doesn’t equate exactly with only 2 points.
Tiddliwinks was in my four reserves for the 4PP so surely I thought he would win that race? The only thing stopping me putting him in the 4PP selections instead of the reserves was his price so not quite sure where I haven’t said he would win the race?
Apologies Halfway, I don’t actually bother looking at other 4PP entries – indeed I cannot even remember what my selections were
Betting shop punters, if they take the time, can take a price off of the screens which are infront of them as they write out their betting slips.
Totally agree they can – sadly most don’t. Indeed too many wouldn’t know value or taking a price even if it slapped them in the face.
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