- This topic has 20 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 11 months ago by
.
- Posts
I’ve got Langley running in the Queens Prize on Saturday, part of a decent card at Kempton that includes two Listed races and the £30k Roseberry Handicap.
If anybody would like a badge, drop me a PM – first come first served.
AP
A fairly recent, less than 5 lengths defeat by a subsequent Group 1 winner in Germany. Not bad form to be taking onto the all weather. Surprised Barney didn’t get his hands on him first.
Is the Queens Prize well under tariff AP? I see Richard Hannon has a horse entered, maybe the owner has overruled him.
Cav,
He was in the same ownership as the Group 1 horse, Scalo, and acted as pacemaker for him twice.
He’s certainly the first horse I’ve owned that has been placed in a Classic, although I suspect the Swiss Derby wouldn’t be quite up to Epsom standards! Stretching coincidence, my usual flat jockey Rab Havlin rode the horse that dead heated with Langley for third in that Derby.
AP
This has become my favorite all-weather racing day of the year.
I should think the anti-AW-ers would cringe at use of words like variety & historic when talking about an all weather meeting, but I really think this day has it all. There’s even a 2yo race, probably with a Bill Turner runner!
Good luck with Langley, Alan. Hopefully he can go one place better than Salute did a few years back!
I’m planning to be there, & haven’t brought my ticket yet, but sadly there will be no shortage of tickets on Saturday. Shame for such a nice card.
Eddie,
Yes it’s under tarriff, but then the entry is well below the standard expected for a Class 2 handicap. The race is rated 86-105, but the top weight is only rated 92. If the race had attracted a 105 rated horse, I’d be out of the handicap and probably staying at home not running for any money at all.
I’m perfectly happy being able to run an 82 rated horse for £12,500. Normally I’d have to place him in class 3 or 4 contests for less money than that.
You have to be realistic – it’s not as if there’s a 2M handicap every day to choose from. What I can guarantee you is that he won’t be running in either of the 0-85 staying races at Wolverhampton later in April for five grand.
But that’s not because of some tarriff – I’ve always sought out the best possible prize money for my horses, and I’ve a list of suitable races for Langley that runs to the end of May and I know the prize money for all of them. But ultimately, as long as the money is sufficient, the choice of race has to include other factors, such as likely number of runners, ground, track etc.
Realistic means a six runner race on ideal ground for eight grand would be better than a sixteen runner race on a track he might not like for twelve grand.
AP
Realistic means a six runner race on ideal ground for eight grand would be better than a sixteen runner race on a track he might not like for twelve grand.
AP
After those wise words, Alan, I’ve watched replays of every race Carter has run and decided he needs a flat left handed track which knocks our plan to run in the Musselburgh Gold Cup on the head!
Tuffers,
Coincidentally, we both have a 12F plus horse rated 82 at present, so chances are we’re looking at the same races.
I’d take the chance and go to Musselburgh if you don’t mind the costs involved. Not many chances to run an 82 horse for £20k these days. I’d advise using a jockey with plenty of experience of the track – it’s a really tricky place.
I can’t see any obvious alternatives during April that fit the flat left handed profile.
AP
Musselburgh has been a lucky course for us in the past though Tuffers. Mr Gibbons won on Elopement for us there, and has an unbelievable record, of 8 rides, 6 wins and 2 seconds for us. Perhaps your boy would like to share the horse box with us Alan!? I think the exercise would cost us about a grand, just depends whether we think he has a better chance than a 12/1 shot. I would certainly expect him to be priced up shorter than that with his recent form.
Can I ask a question while there’s three owners here,
If there were less flat meetings (I’m thinking of AW meetings although not exclusively) & that led to bigger handicap fields, would the races being harder to win negate the increase in prize money?
Do you think it would be better if the prize for winning only increased slightly but there was money available for an extra place or two?
It’s not often you get to ask people genuinely in the know!
Can I ask a question while there’s three owners here,
If there were less flat meetings (I’m thinking of AW meetings although not exclusively) & that led to bigger handicap fields, would the races being harder to win negate the increase in prize money?
Do you think it would be better if the prize for winning only increased slightly but there was money available for an extra place or two?
It’s not often you get to ask people genuinely in the know!
I think more place prizemoney would be a good idea because it would be a bit more of an incentive to run to your very best and it would also be helpful if you could cover the cost of actually running in the race by finishing in the first four.
As has been mentioned above it will cost us over £1,000 to run in a race at Musselburgh (£700 diesel, £100 jockey, £100 entry, £100 lad’s expenses, £65 racing plates) and that’s ignoring the training fees of roughly £1,500 a month to get the horse there in the first place.
The thing that makes handicaps harder to win at the moment at the lower end of the scale is the fact that the appalling level of prizemoney encourages connections to try and land a touch instead. The dramatic improvement of some horses after a series of poor runs particularly on the AW has been well documented on here.
I certainly wouldn’t be against bigger field handicaps provided the prizemoney went down to say fifth or sixth place. Some races do pay prizemoney for the first six at the moment but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Anthony,
The downside of fewer meetings is that it becomes more difficult to get some horses into a suitable race, because the risk of being eliminated is increased. Go back ten years, when there were not so many AW meetings, and the permitted field sizes were bigger, and the handicap rating range for each race was less restrictive.
To give an example, I had a horse called Democracy who ran in a 9F 0-70 at Goodwood and won it, from a mark of 49. But there were 22 runners in that race and he was number 21 – now the safety limit for such a race would be 16, so he’d be eliminated. And even if he did get in, the race woud now be rated 56-70 rather than 0-70, so he’d be carrying an extra 7lbs weight, which would probably prevent him winning.
So I’d say that if we had fewer meetings, we’d also have to consider how the races were framed to avoid some horses being squeezed out.
As for the prize money, I’m against increased place money. We’ve had too many examples in recent weeks of horses rewarded for finishing last or third of four etc. The problem is that the system of allocating the money in each race is inflexible and takes no account of the number of runners. As ever in the modern world, this inflexibility is tied to a computer. Prize money is distributed by Weatherbys into owners, trainer and jockeys bank accounts with them according to percentages contained in the rules of racing. There’s no scope in their system to deal with variations.
AP
You should write a column in one of the papers, Alan.
Maybe one a month, giving an insight into what owning more modest types involves. (I’ve tried to get that wording right!)
Don’t do a blog, though – takes up too much time & just isn’t as refined a product.
Alan, I can’t really agree with your comments on place money. Connections don’t know how many horses will line-up when they make an entry, do they ? I don’t think there’s any justification for the authoirities ‘retro-fitting’ prize money, once they know the field size.
You were missed at the Lygon Arms Preview Night btw…
Sorely tempted to take you up on the badge offer Alan, but alas I have other commitments tomorrow afternoon. It should be a pretty incredible fixture, with artifacts to rank alongside Excalibur and The Turin Shroud rumoured to be unveiled – the fifteenth and sixteenth Sunbury stalls.
Good luck with Langley and, if you fancy a celebratory drink in the vicinity of Sunbury after racing, I’m sure an impromptu gathering of the resistance could be arranged.
Glenn,
Thanks and I’m sure that I’ll manage to place Langley somewhere more civilized later in the summer, although I can’t promise a 16 runner race.
AP
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.