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I think so.
I was not impugning Kauto’s bravery, Bosranic. I meant that he used to get nervous at the last fence – but got over it with Ruby’s help, no doubt, in terms of buildng his confidence.
It was just that he seems to have more sensitive, facial features, and be less sturdily built. Lucky to Hagar the Horrible, if you like; or Hamlet to Horatio or Laertes. So he’d tend to be less physically brave – foolhardy, by nature. His bravery is more commendable in a way, since he overcame his nerves.
However, imo, Kauto Star would not have been surprising for the imposition by Denman of a new, much more testing environment to have led to a reversion to a wiser, more circumspect attitude to his fences. Didn’t mean he’d jump them better, as was clear.
I think the distance Denman won by was pretty good, but, imo, he had a hard race. Jumping faults and all didn’t prevent Kauto Star giving Denman a hard race. The same goes for Neptune Collonges, of course, to some extent though, like Denman, surely he would have been much fresher, in the sense of having had less top-class mileage. However, if it affected Kauto’s performance at all, it would most likely have been to a negligible extent, it seems to me, on reflection.
Imo, Kauto Star remains one of the few true greats, as well. Some, it seems to me (though perhaps my memory serves me ill), seem to have a legendary status primarily as a result of journalists’ mania for creating cults, and in at least one case, I think, of having an iron constitution, rather than once in an epoch speed. Well, it seems we could have two in this epoch!
have to admit long before race i said kauto would win but just before race i switched and thought denman would win even though i didnt bet in the race
kauto star didnt seem to be travelling well at all as soon as denman hit the front after the first circuit
vf
I was convinced that Kauto would win the GC and stacked him into doubles accordingly, so to be honest I was gutted!!! I think it was also almost disbelief. However, Denman is a complete machine and over any further than 3 miles he’ll beat Kauto.
My one reservation about Kauto’s preparation was the closer proximity of the Ascot race to cheltenham than the Aon chase he ran in last year and which Denman ran in this year. If I was Nicholls I would miss the Ascot Chase then go for the GC and then the Melling Chase at Aintree next year. Particularly as the only crown he can now lay claim to is the best 2 1/2 mile chaser in the land. Master Minded may prove that to be a falsehood as well.
The one good thing about all the aspersions and doubt is that we are bound to see a rematch and thats what its all about.
Right now i’m richer for being a fan of horse racing despite being poorer as a result of it.. I think thats a dichotomy?!?!?
i for one don’t believe the gold cup this year is a race were you can judge who is the best out of denman and kauto, denman had the race set up for him in all possible ways he didn’t have to make his own running in the first circuit and i bet neptunes owner got a few quid off harry for helping with that.the ground was soft and not GOOD TO SOFT,cheltenham promised good to soft and gave the official going wrong as the times show.kauto wasn’t his normal self and it wasn’t nothing to do with denman as he wasn’t jumping well from the 2nd fence let alone when denman took it up.his injury he picked up from ascot must not have cleared as quick as first thought or there must have been a slight worry in the horses head about the injury, Ruby usually has trouble settling him early, as he wants to go on were was that ? taking nothing away from denman but a lot of things in this years gold cup don’t add up.
Is Denman going to sulk now when Kauto still gets his breakfast first in the morning?
its obvious to see that kauto is the stable star and it will take denman at least 2 years to become what kauto is in the eyes of the racing world let alone his trainer who i have no doubt loves kauto to bits.
have to admit long before race i said kauto would win but just before race i switched and thought denman would win even though i didnt bet in the race
vfAs far as your insight
the switching event
is highly relevant.The fact is the result
is more certain
as the event nears.I have always used
intensive models
and mathematics
but have also
buttressed this
and enjoyed sitting
for hours
open-brained
waiting for manna.DENMAN (IRE) 8-y-o (17 Apr 2000) ch g
Trainer: P F Nicholls Owner: Paul K Barber & Mrs M Findlay
Breeder: Colman O’Flynn
Presenting (14.5f) – Polly Puttens (Pollerton(13.1f))
Half-brother to numerous winning jumpers, including useful 2m4f chaser Potter’s Bay and useful hurdler up to 2m4f Potter’s Gale; dam maiden daughter of fairly useful hurdler My Puttens.14Mar08 Chl 27GS Cl1 G1Ch,268K 11-10 1/12 7L, Kauto Star[9/4] 11-10 Sam Thomas 176 175 186
09Feb08 Nby 24GS Cl1 G2Ch,28K 11-10 1/4 20L, Regal Heights[1/4F] 11-4 Sam Thomas 176 145 178
— — 28Dec07 Leo 24Gd/Y G1Ch,83K 11-10 1/6 4L, Mossbank[4/9F] 11-10 R Walsh — 41 172
01Dec07 Nby 27Sft Cl1 G3HcCh,85K 11-12 1/18 11L, Dream Alliance[5/1] 10-7 Sam Thomas 161 153 180
14Mar07 Chl 25GS Cl1 G1Ch,96K 11-4 1/17 10L, Snowy Morning[6/5F] 11-4 R Walsh — 157 165
10Feb07 Nby 24Sft Cl2 NvCh,11K 11-12 1/3 36L, Mr Pointment[1/3F] 11-9 R Walsh — 133 169
26Nov06 Nby 20Hy Cl2 G2NvCh,19K 11-7 1/4 12L, Snakebite[2/11F] 11-0 Sam Thomas — 103 152
11Nov06 Chl 21GS Cl2 NvCh,12K 11-4 1/7 ¾L, Don’t Push It[4/6F] 11-4 R Walsh — 137 161
— — 31Oct06 Exe 18Gd Cl3 NvCh,10K 10-12 1/6 10L, Penzance[1/3F] 11-4 R Walsh — 138 141
15Mar06 Chl 21Gd Cl1 G1NvH,57K 11-7 2/17 2½L, Nicanor[11/10F] 11-7 R Walsh 155 150 151
10Feb06 Ban 24Gd Cl3 NvH,6K 11-13 1/7 17L, One Sniff[1/12F] 11-5 Christian Williams 152 107 144
01Jan06 Chl 21GS Cl1 G1NvH,22K 11-7 1/8 21L, The Cool Guy[5/2F] 11-7 R Walsh — 140 157
17Nov05 Wcn 22Gd Cl3 NvH,5K 11-4 1/12 16L, Karanja[2/1] 10-12 Christian Williams — 93 124
23Oct05 Wcn 22Gd Cl4 NvH,3K 10-11 1/9 1¼L, Lyes Green[5/6F] 10-11 Christian Williams — 109 117
Small fields say it all, horses simply don’t want to go near the horse – he breaks there heart[/color:1gifksu6].
There’s that fecking term again…[/color:1gifksu6]
Kauto’s better than Denman, Denman’s better than Kauto (as if) …who cares?
All that matters if that Kauto has more friends on Facebook than Denman.
Take that, Tank!!
All that matters if that Kauto has more friends on Facebook than Denman.
Take that, Tank!!
Good. He needs all the friends he can get right now – must be feeling a little bit down at present. Understandable.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Chasers & Hurdlers is published today and they have rated Kauto above Denman. 182 for Kauto versus 180 for Denman. BHB have them as 182 Denman and 179 Kauto.
Timeform believe that Kauto just had an off day at Chelts, and that Denman still has a bit to find on him. Personally i’d say they are neck and neck.Early days to be discussing this as the argument will run till next April I’m sure.
However, while I’m in the popular camp that believes certain tracks suit the two horses differently, I do feel that the odds on Denman vs 7/1 against Kauto Star for the Gold Cup is an incorrect reflection of their chances.
They’re more closely matched than that IMO although I couldn’t have Kauto above Denman if I did have to rate them.
Lee
You got the book already, underscore (still waiting on mine)?
If so, can you stick-up the top-ten ratings for both disciplines.
I’m pretty sure Denman comes with a symbol to be fair. Kauto’s 182 is based on the King George IIRC, and I wouldn’t be too inclined to disagree with leaving him be for the last two runs of the season, given that he didn’t travel his best on either occasion.
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