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I would run it over 2m3f or 2m2f at Sandown or Newbury.
If its going to be over 2m2f shouldn’t it be at Fontwell?
Newbury has a 2m2.5f chase distance, if required.
As an alternative to Fontwell for a chase of exactly 2m2f, you could always nominate Market Rasen. Or Auteuil.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Although the likelihood of those two ever meeting is very slim indeed, over 2 miles, Master Minded wouldn’t be out of hack canter to see off Kauto Star.
Likewise, as Master Minded is very much a non stayer, Kauto Star would treat his stable mate with equal contempt at two and half miles or beyond.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
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I would go further than that and say Master Minded is such a brilliantly fast 2 miler 2 or 3 furlongs more might see him stop like shot. He certainly didso at Aintree about 1/2 a mile from home.
Almost every horse has stamina limitations and the faster they are the more likely they are to be exposed when racing beyond their ultimate trip in top class comapany. We see it so many times on the flat in the 2000 Guineas.almost every year
Brigadier Gerard is another flat horse example.He got away with it when they played into his hands and his class beat Parnell in the King George but when Roberto set of like a scalded cat at York over an extended 10 furlongs he exposed the great horses stamina and ran away from him. That one race over a trip beyond his best was the only time he ever lost.
I would run it over 2m3f or 2m2f at Sandown or Newbury.
If its going to be over 2m2f shouldn’t it be at Fontwell?
Newbury has a 2m2.5f chase distance, if required.
As an alternative to Fontwell for a chase of exactly 2m2f, you could always nominate Market Rasen. Or Auteuil.
gc
Now we’re talking – 2m 2.5f at Auteuil will do – 24th May 2009 please
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Good idea! and you could ask your pal Willie to stick Hurricane Fly in to create a bit more interest
Brigadier Gerard is another flat horse example.He got away with it when they played into his hands and his class beat Parnell in the King George but when Roberto set of like a scalded cat at York over an extended 10 furlongs he exposed the great horses stamina and ran away from him. That one race over a trip beyond his best was the only time he ever lost.
Fist, I’m sure the 1972 King George & QE was run in a fairly fast time, and the Brigadier took it up a good bit from home. So his stamina couldn’t have been that suspect. Maybe my mind is playing tricks again?
As for the B&H Gold Cup defeat: considering it was only a few weeks since his victory at Ascot, the Brigadier still managed to beat the course record when finishing second to Roberto. I read somewhere that Geoff Lewis had commented beforehand, after inspecting BG in the paddock, that the horse looked out of sorts, and was convinced that he would get beat that day. He was right.
Again, the trip shouldn’t have been a problem though; he had already a few races over 10 furlongs at Newmarket, Sandown and Ascot. He was simply beaten by Derby winner on top form, and whose jockey made every advantage of the weight for age allowance and made every post a winning one. I was gutted at the great horse’s defeat that day.
Anyhow, I digress…
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Good idea! and you could ask your pal Willie to stick Hurricane Fly in to create a bit more interest
We’ll run next years Champion Hurdle at the same time – Hurricane Fly vs. Quevega on the hurdles course. Nicky said he’d put Binocular in to ensure a strong pace for the champs
I think myself and Graysons are having a senior moment.
Their is only one racecourse to hold this sadly non event.
One track with good jumps where a horse can attack his fences
One track where the crowd will be packed into eager to see these fine horses
One track with a demanding run in to test their nerves and see if they really are tough enough
And that track is
CARTMEL
Come on you know it makes sense.
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I agree but if it’s going to be over 2 miles it should be over hurdles and PN should be allowed to stick Gay Future in and pass him of as Kauto Star. He had a white blaze so no need for paint
The way he cruised round the course that day even Master Minded would have had trouble catching him I think myself and Graysons are having a senior moment.
Their is only one racecourse to hold this sadly non event.
One track with good jumps where a horse can attack his fences
One track where the crowd will be packed into eager to see these fine horses
One track with a demanding run in to test their nerves and see if they really are tough enough
And that track is
CARTMEL
Come on you know it makes sense.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Maybe he is an out and out 2 miler but I’m more of the opinion that there were other factors involved when Master Minded was beaten over 2m4f at Aintree rather than him being a non stayer.
Can a horse as good as him that canters up in 2 milers at Sandown & Cheltenham really stop as if shot after 2m2f at an easy track like Aintree?
I think he was probably OTT after that supreme performance at Cheltenham and the mistake he made at that notorious fence up the straight at Aintree (3rd last?) may have winded him as well.
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Fair comment Paul and PN did say recently he is a hard horse to keep right.Many many horses run a mile below their best at Aintree.
On the negative side he did run over 2m4f in France and did exactly the same thing. He looked a very ordinary horse that day and couldn’t live with the winner.
the mistake he made at that notorious fence up the straight at Aintree (3rd last?) may have winded him as well.
Two out (the ditch), I think it was.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
- Total Posts 17716
I had to watch the race again to remind me and it was the second last. He dragged his hind legs through the back of it and it didn’t look like the type of mistake that would wind a horse. Ruby was already after him when they jumped the third last and never got the response ecpected.
After the third last when together I thought Thornton was going to resort to the whip but he decided he didn’t have to to keep tabs on Master MInded.
BY the time they got to the second last Ruby certainly looked that bit more anxious of the two.To me Thornton looked to have a bit more horse under him and most likely Master MInded simply didn’t stay.
Aintree has this reputation of being such an easy course yet we see horses strung out like washing there year after year.
I think Master Minded faced the same problem all non stayers do round there. The pace always looks a bit faster there and when you have a horse like T/Bleu taking you along the pace is bound to take it’s toll. He was there for a very long time and both MM and VPU had to go even quicker to pass him on the home turn as he was still up for it and wasn’t exactly stopping.
I think if ever a race was going to find Master MInded stamina limitations out that was it, as the last thing any suspected non stayer wants is a pace set by a Pipe front runner.
When PN says he’s a difficult horse to keep right, what exactly does he mean by that?
I go for Kauto Star, but it seems that Master Minded is doing well too. He has won a race today at the Punchestown festival.
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When PN says he’s a difficult horse to keep right, what exactly does he mean by that?
I would say he means he’s a hard horse to keep ticking over. Some horses get very cocky as they get older and totally extract the urine.They look after themsleves a bit too much and only do what they have to. They simply don’t put it in a whole lot of enegry when working. It makes it very difficullt to get them to peak fitness on race day.
He could also mean health wise. I remember a horse trained by an old friend of mines. If there was anything going round the yard like a cold bug or whatever he would be the first to catch it. He had a very low resistance to things like that and you would just be getting him right and the next day he would have a runny nose or wouldn’t eat.
With Master Minded it could be either or both and unless PN tells us there’s no way of being sure.
I
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