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I think that if it comes up soft on arc day, as it almost certainly will, then Authorized is not a horse I’d want to take on.
Clearly DT is a better horse on good ground than softer – he also ran at a distance short of his best. While the same can be said of authorized, he had his favoured ground.
Also the ground on eclipse day was better than today, which probably shows why Authorized didn’t win that day, in that he likes cut, especially over this shorter distance.
The ground will be key on Arc day.I take your point about Authorized and his favoured ground, but the times yesterday suggest that the going was exactly as described : good with a good-to-soft- patches – imho, no excuse for defeat for a top-class thoroughbred. Also, it is worth noting that DT put up one of the time performances of the season on similar ground in the King George.
As for the Eclipse form, imo, Dettori asked Authorized too huge a question to close from way off the pace and would have benefited from riding his mount handier seeing as they didn’t go quick fractions early in the race.
Yesterday proved , to me at least, what a dubious race the Sandown feature was. Notnowcato and Yellowstone’s runs add further evidence, and the form ( Sandown ) is best ignored.
Dylan Thomas’ best two runs – behind Manduro at Royal Ascot and in winning the King George both times he ran to exactly the same mark which indicates he’s just as effective over ten furlongs as he is over twelve.
2lbs? On whos ratings…yours? Didnt he hit 130 with the RPR for his King George win? Dylan Thomas is in my opinion a 12f horse and on both occasions he has raced over the trip he was been impressive and unextended. He also beat Notnowcato further when second at Ascot.
But by far the most important factor is the ground, a genuine top class horse could go on yesterdays ground effectively but Dylan Thomas is one of those exceptions that really needs to hear his hooves rattle.
But in saying all that Authorized proved himself a top class colt yesterday which was being called into question. He travelled beautifully and picked up well.
Dylan Thomas’ best two runs – behind Manduro at Royal Ascot and in winning the King George both times he ran to exactly the same mark which indicates he’s just as effective over ten furlongs as he is over twelve.
2lbs? On whos ratings…yours? Didnt he hit 130 with the RPR for his King George win? .
Yes mine I wouldn’t trust RPR or Timeform or any other organisations ratings thats why I compile my own.
Dylan Thomas is one of those exceptions that really needs to hear his hooves rattle.
Where is the evidence for that?
The ground was on the easy side of good in the King George – the Racing Post went for good to soft, fwiw – and in yesterday’s International, the two performances that are likely to produce his highest ever ratings.
The only efforts in Dylan Thomas’ career that should possibly be excused on account of the going were in the Racing Post Trophy (soft) and the Jockey Club Gold Cup (dirt).
the Derby ground was on the quick side of good
I can’t be having that either.
Authorized is more of a 12f horse too. I wouldnt expect a reversal of form any time soon myself.
As for the ground, offically it was softer at Ascot for the KGV than yesterday. Not one to treat those going reports literally, but surely yesterdays ground was not that much of a negative factor for DT
Ascot’s ground was fast in the King Geroge…ignore the going reports there these days.
Dylan Thomas ran poorly in the Juddmonte last year as well…again an ease in the ground. When Notnowcato beat him in Ireland, it had rained all morning and the going (as so often happens in Ireland) was pathetic and there was an ease in the ground that day.
At Ascot when DT was second to Manduro, he beat Notnowcato further under a weak drive from Soumillion simply because the ground was faster. The trainer has said it before and after his races as have the jockeys. Indeed in the early parts of yesterdays race I didnt think he was travelling that well.
Like I said, he is just one of those horses who needs fast ground, which is not that surprising given his make up.
Dylan Thomas ran poorly in the Juddmonte last year as well
If i remember rightly, last year he simply didnt settle. Surely tahts far more significant than the ground on the day
And what do you mean by "as well"? He didnt run "poorly" yesterday. Was simply beaten by the better horse
I was thinking that Clivex surely no one can say Dylan Thomaqs ran poorly yesterday? The first two were way clear of the rest (the third a multiple group one and Eclipse winner), he ran a cracker.
Of course. Without Authorized in the race, it would have been seen as a cracking victory…on the ground too
Ascot’s ground was fast in the King Geroge…ignore the going reports there these days.
I never take going reports as gospel. The times on King George day at Ascot show that the ground was NOT fast. Nothing like it.
As a matter of interest, just HOW fast do you think it was there on 21st June when the 103-rated Heron Bay, carrying more in w-f-a terms, won a handicap in a time 1 second faster than Dylan Thomas’ King George?
The latter performance was rated 130 by Topspeed and 124 on time by Timeform, so it wasn’t just a case of its being a slowly run race.
When I stated "as well" I was referring to Prufrock mentioning the Racingpost Trophy etc.
I am not stating Dylan Thomas is a better horse, just that the conditions yesterday did not play to his strengths (soft ground winners yesterday and still today).Perhaps Authorized would still be a better horse on better ground, we’ll have to wait to see (if we get a chance).
Ascot’s ground was fast in the King Geroge…ignore the going reports there these days.
I never take going reports as gospel. The times on King George day at Ascot show that the ground was NOT fast. Nothing like it.
My road is rock hard, sometimes it’s takes me 2 minutes to get from one end to the other, sometimes it takes me 80 seconds, sometimes it takes me 60 seconds and sometimes it takes me 40 seconds. Why?
Because some times I sprint, sometimes I run at 3/4 pace, sometimes I jog and sometimes I walk – yet the road is always rock hard.
Thats my thought of the day
Mike
Well, thank you for sharing that with us, Mikky.
As stated already, both Timeform and Racing Post regard the King George as a good time performance which could only have been achieved by the race having been run at a true gallop.
Aidan
I am going to be a right pedan and quote back to you
Dylan Thomas ran poorly in the Juddmonte last year as well
Well, thank you for sharing that with us, Mikky.
As stated already, both Timeform and Racing Post regard the King George as a good time performance which could only have been achieved by the race having been run at a true gallop.
Your welcome
Just ignore me mate, I’m in my silly mood
Mike
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