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Juddmonte International 2009

Home Forums Big Races – Discussion Juddmonte International 2009

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  • #12104
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Although some time away this is one of the most intriguing races of the season.

    Sea the Stars who has done everything asked of him this season puts his reputation on the line against the best AOB can throw at him once again.

    Rip Van Winkle got nearer to him than any other horse has this season in the Eclipse, yet according to some it will be left to Mastercraftsman to challenge him this time.

    Will 18 days between the Sussex Stakes and this it is not beyond the realms of possibility Rip Van Winkle could run in both races.

    When they met at Sandown for a few seconds Rip Van Winkle looked like he was going to go very close to beating Sea the Stars. However when it came down to it and Murtagh gave him a couple of smacks he veered right immediately losing any chance he had.

    The commentator claimed Sea the Stars quickened again, perhaps he did a little but there is no doubt Rip Van Winkle who then veered left was losing ground which made Sea the Stars look to quicken more than he actually did.

    Some may disagree with that but nothing changes the fact that the shortest distance between two lines is a straight line and Rip Van Winkle was all over the shop.

    I suppose where AOB is concerned it depends on which horse he thinks is best equipped to attempt to dethrone Sea the Stars.

    Johnny Murtagh declared by choice that Rip Van Winkle was the best horse going into the guineas. A lot has changed since then with both horses shown marked improvement.

    Mastercraftsman was breathtaking in the Irish 2000 Guineas and followed that up with a victory over Delegator. Not for the first time in his career he got into a battle and came out on top.

    There is a similarity between him and Sea the Stars and that is neither of them are ever going to win races by big margins.

    On a line through Delegator you would assume Sea the Stars would come out on top but racing just isn’t that simple.

    Mastercraftsman is as tough as they come and he won’t know the horse next to him is Sea the Stars he’ll just stick his neck out and fight with anything that’s near him.

    There must be a slight doubt about the trip for Mastercraftsman but he did get the mile very well in soft ground at the Curragh so the chances must be fair he will get it ok. However AOB might decide the prize is worth going for and run both horses. If either were to beat Sea the Stars the winner’s stud value would go through the roof.

    I really hope all 3 turn up. The sight of these two fighting it with Rip Van Winkle breathing down their necks has the makings of the race of the season.

    #240284
    yorkshirepudding
    Member
    • Total Posts 608

    Sea The Stars will drub those who have already crossed him and come off worst.

    #240344
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    To be honest I didn’t know Jimmy Fortune rode him. As a matter of interest where was Murtagh?

    #240345
    Imperial Call
    Member
    • Total Posts 2184

    Johnny was serving a suspension

    #240366
    blackfingernail
    Member
    • Total Posts 108

    me thinks sea the stars is not getting the credit he deserves. and i think york will play to his speed strength. i’ll be there. :D

    #240596
    thehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5552

    I think Mastercraftsman will only improve for the step up to 10 furlongs. He will never give in in a fight. Rip Van Winkle has improved on each start all year. It’s hard to know what else has this race as their target but they will all need to improve to beat Sea The Stars. I think its possible, but unlikely.

    #242515
    blackfingernail
    Member
    • Total Posts 108

    can anyone tell me why bet £3-65 have priced every runner up at evens, however they’ve left out sea the stars! the trainer has only said 55 times thats where he’s off next. bunch of muppets.

    #242578
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I saw that…..the cleaner’s husband got on at evens :lol: They’re resetting their sytem you silly boy :lol:

    #243331
    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2215

    Rip didnt lose that race because he veered away. STS looks like he always just finds more when required. Straight line and beating would have been the same i believe

    STS will beat these easily. I wouldnt rule out further improvement either

    #243361
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    Interesting to hear Keiren Fallon’s views on Sea The Stars.

    Like me, he thinks Sea The Stars is the best Derby winner for some time and will take all the beating in the Juddmonte – he thinks he just idles once hitting the front and has simply been toying with his rivals thus far.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #243398
    douginho
    Member
    • Total Posts 1046

    Agree with the majority on here, Sea The Stars looks the one. I just think there is more in the tank. He hasn’t been in a real battle yet as no horse has been able to eyeball him. I’d like to see him go eyeball to eyeball 2f out with any other horse (Mastercraftsman preferably) and see what the response is. Reminiscent of Giants Causeway and Kalanisi back in the day. That will reveal all the answers.

    #243403
    Rob V
    Member
    • Total Posts 173

    It’ll take a horse with an exceptional turn of foot to beat Sea The Stars.

    I can’t see him losing this one. I’m just gonna sit back and watch him dissolve away his challengers :lol:

    #243459
    Stacelita
    Member
    • Total Posts 202

    i think sea the stars and kingsgate native look pretty good a double might pay 3/4to1 with sea the stars likely to be odds on keep looking at the races can’t see them getting beat especially with kingsgate native showing a great turn of foot last time out.
    If it did win i’d look at a combination f/c in ebor handicap involving changingoftheguard because i’ve got this funny feeling he’ll find 1 too good.
    maybe warringhah red merlin hits only vic any others that stand out?

    #243460
    Stacelita
    Member
    • Total Posts 202

    That is i forgot to mention with ground good or better not like goodwood which was described as good on some days but looked dead with fast ground horses like ghanaati struggling to show their speed

    #243512
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    It’ll take a horse with an exceptional turn of foot to beat Sea The Stars.

    And where are we going to get another Zarkava in a hurry?

    History has shown us that better horses than Sea the Stars have been beaten by horses not known for a great turn of foot. Roberto for example beat Brigadier Gerard, Lorenzaccio beat Nijinsky.

    Personally I think if there’s a horse around that has what it takes to beat Sea the Stars it’s Mastercraftsman with the help of AOB’s judgement on how to run a race.

    In the Eclipse StS kicked for home 2 out and held of Rip Van Winkle pretty comfortably. RVW actually got to him but never went through with it.

    The big question must be can Mastercraftsman be got into a similar position.

    For that you need speed and thats’ something MC has loads of.

    Watch the Guineas when StS stops MC from getting out fom behind Evasive. MC goes from being just over a length behind Evasive to about 4 lengths behind him. By the time MC gets his stride back Sea the Stars has flown but MC makes up the lost ground and finishes 4 length behind but has finished a head in front of Evasive. Once MC got going he actually finished every bit as well as Sts and remember he was said not to be 100% that day

    At Ascot Mastercraftsman beats Delegator and has Evasive 3 1/2 lengths behind.

    These two races all things considered would put Mastercraftsman about 1 length behind Sea the Stars.

    That tells me that Mastercraftsman certainly has enough speed to get to Sea the Stars but passing him? Perhaps he won’t have to.

    I reckon AOB will lay down the law here and tell Murtagh to make sure he is ahead of Sea the Stars before they hit the 2f marker and it will be StS who will need all his speed to get to him.

    I don’t buy into this second gear/quickening again label Sea the Stars has.
    He looked pretty much flat to the boards to me at Sandown.

    I think StS will get to Mastercraftsman ok but he wont fold like RVW did. I expect Mastercraftsman to outgun him like every other horse he’s beat and I’m very confident the Sea the Stars bubble will be well and truly burst at York.

    #243514
    Peter Poston’s Ghost
    Participant
    • Total Posts 548

    Looking at the betting, it seems that Tartan Bearer is the only "big-name" contender to StS and MC.

    RVW is available at a huge price on Betfair so most unlikely he’ll run.

    My view is that StS is an exceptional horse but they all can be beaten on the day.
    An inspired piece of jockeyship may produce a shock result like when Darley got Observatory home in the QE2 and Giant’s Causeway was taken by surprise
    Will be there to see the fun. Can’t wait!

    #243526
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    He’s a funny horse Tartan Bearer. I always thought SMS had doubts about him truly getting 1m4f but now he’s saying that is his best trip is 1m4f but elects to run him here.

    Far be it for me to say SMS is wrong but I think he’s the same horse at both trips.

    If you agree 1m2f is the wrong trip for Conduit this will be the first time the best young horses have taken on an older horse who we know can win over the trip.

    Certainly adds interest to the race. What a turn up if he stuffed them both :shock:

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