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You seem to be struggling here Charlie. Do you have a problem assessing this yard – I seem to remember on another forum you were suggesting that he has his hurdlers (and specifically Refinement) well schooled first time out (and it wasn’t April Fools day)
It is of course an opinion. Maybe Jonjo has just been unlucky and that all the smart horses he has got from the flat or from bumpers (Spuradich and Thunder Rock another two other dismal flops you can add to the list) weren’t meant to be hurdlers. And that all his smart novices were just "hype" horses. (Those theories lose their clout though when the horses clearly regress even from their novice form)
Somehow I doubt it….
I won’t persist with this argument though, as basically I can’t be bothered. If you want to continue believing he is an able trainer, then good luck with your punting on his horses – you will need it.
Fair Along, Katchit, Detroit City etc, etc
Come on now. Thats crazy
Katchit was a modest flat performer who has undoubtably raced to the very best of his ability. He has been superbly handled. he hasnt put in one perfoirmance that could be described as disappointing
Detroit City’s fall from grace could well have had a lot to do with the difficulty that finally claimed him and little Fair Along has performed admirably (although perhaps overraced a bit)
You can also throw in the fact that his novice hurdlers tend to jump like they have never seen a hurdle before.
An over-rated trainer who has lots of winners because he has lots of horses. See also R Hannon, M Channon.
Smithy
I’m not sure where you get over-rated trainer from, Jonjo trains horses and some turn out decent , some turn out not so good, just like those trained by his colleagues King, Nicholls, Hobbs, Pipe etc, etc
I’m sure every trainer in the country would like horses to turn into a Denman, Kauto Star, Exotic Dancer, Istabraq, Dylan Thomas, New Approach, Sahkees Secret etc,etc, but they don’t
A horse either has ability or is just another also ran and nothing a trainer does can change that
Isn’t maximising the ability of a horse one of the characteristics of a good trainer?
Isn’t maximising the ability of a horse one of the characteristics of a good trainer?
Smithy,
Your saying he should do better with what he gets not me, so show me the evidence of this, just liike i’ve asked TDK to shown me
It is like smashing your head against a brick wall Smithy.
I could say the same TDK, i look forward to seeing your evidence instead of your opinion
The guy has a stable full of horses owned by some of the most prominent owners in the game. If it is just coincindence that most are useless, then Jonjo has been very unlucky.
Alternatively, you could take the view that he doesn’t do very well with a stable full of expensive horses, whilst some of his contemporaries do.
I listed plenty of horses who have disappointed for the yard Charlie. That is evidence and there is more if you look through his record.
The guy has a stable full of horses owned by some of the most prominent owners in the game. If it is just coincindence that most are useless, then Jonjo has been very unlucky.
Alternatively, you could take the view that he doesn’t do very well with a stable full of expensive horses, whilst some of his contemporaries do.
Smithy
How many good horses does the rich owner packed stable of P Nicholls have? same with D Pipe
One, two, three???
How many good horses does JP Macmanus have in Ireland with other trainers, one, two, three???
A man who owns a country can’t get better of Coolmoore, so don’t suggest having money behind you , success should follow
I thought Paul Nicholls probably had one of the best strings of NH horses that had ever been assembled!
I thought Paul Nicholls probably had one of the best strings of NH horses that had ever been assembled!
Smithy, there’s only Kauto Star and possibly Denman that have turned into stars, the rest are probably nowt special, just like the majority of Jonjo’s, Pipes, Kings etc and this is what i’m trying to get across
The horse HAS to have ability first, even probably best trainer in Europe A Fabre can’t turn a 120 horse into a 130+ horse and this what you seem to missing for some reason, which surprises me tbh
Charlie,
I’d have a close look at when Jonjo sent out all those winners… My guess is that many of them would have come early in the season when most yards have barely started sending out runners.
Also this
“Posted: 02 Jan 2008 11:44 Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
A horse either has ability or is just another also ran and nothing a trainer does can change that
rHas to be about the daftest thing i’ve ever heard. Shall we give you Nicholl’s string and see how you get on!!!! Honestly Charlie I ws taking you seriously till I saw that. Now I know you’re on the wind-up!!!!!
I thought Paul Nicholls probably had one of the best strings of NH horses that had ever been assembled!
Smithy, there’s only Kauto Star and possibly Denman that have turned into stars, the rest are probably nowt special, just like the majority of Jonjo’s, Pipes, Kings etc and this is what i’m trying to get across
PMSL – this just gets funnier and funnier. I wouldn’t mind owning a favourite for the Champion Chase, even if Charlie D said it was "nowt special"…
or a Sun Alliance Chase winner, Supreme Novice Hurdler winner, Heineken Gold Cup winner etc etc etc
Smithy, there’s only Kauto Star and possibly Denman that have turned into stars, the rest are probably nowt special,
Twist Magic??
But a good example was Saturday at newbury. In a pretty competitive race you just knew that Celestial Halo would be primed and ready to run a decent race
But same charge under Jonjo?
Charlie,
I’d have a close look at when Jonjo sent out all those winners… My guess is that many of them would have come early in the season when most yards have barely started sending out runners.
Also this
“Posted: 02 Jan 2008 11:44 Post subject:
——————————————————————————–
A horse either has ability or is just another also ran and nothing a trainer does can change that
Has to be about the daftest thing i’ve ever heard. Shall we give you Nicholl’s string and see how you get on!!!! Honestly Charlie I ws taking you seriously till I saw that. Now I know you’re on the wind-up!!!!!
Look, put Kauto Star with Alan Potts and you get Kauto Star because the horse has loads of natural ability
You lot seem to think trainers have the ability to turn carp into superstars, they don’t, just like K Fallon can’t win a G1 on a selling plater – he needs to have a horse with ability to do it
Horse ability is paramount in the success of that horse, not the trainer, jockey, stable lad, vet etc,etc
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