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Jockey retirement age

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  • #1677775
    zilzal
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    • Total Posts 1801

    The RP published today an eloquent reminder by Richard Forristal of the shocking accident to have befallen jockey Graham Lee in mid November (as well as the freak accident involving Richard Bevis) I would be surprised if age was not one of several contributory factors (big or small) involved in the degree of Graham’s injury and I would be surprised too if it did not cross the minds of the racing authorities to consider the introduction of a mandatory or at least recommended jockey retirement age in the near future. Would there be backing for such a move in racing and what retirement age in the modern era would be sensible for Flat as against National Hunt jockeys? (We seem to have been relatively lucky with young jockeys presumably due at least in part to strict protocols)

    #1677779
    Avatar photocormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9336

    I wouldn’t say they needed to impose an age limit but perhaps a fitness and health check once 45+ or something like that? Maybe younger, say 40, for jumps.Maybe something like that is in place but I can’t remember seeing it referenced anywhere.

    I don’t think people withstand falls as flexibly when older and reaction times probably slow up a little (but I’m simply guessing with those two comments, I don’t have any evidence on it)

    #1677782
    zilzal
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    • Total Posts 1801

    Regular fitness and health checks certainly must have their place, Cormack, but at some age I believe you need to take matters out of the hands of the jockey and their physician and make an actuarial call like I presume they do in the aviation industry. 45/40 Flat/NH does seem like a good starting point for a discussion on a recommended retirement age.

    #1677784
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    I am not sure about a mandatory retirement age. Frankie Dettori had one of his best ever seasons last year when he was in his early 50s.

    #1677788
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    • Total Posts 5863

    Lester won his last jockey’s title at the age of 47 and a 2,000 Guineas at the age of 57.
    But that’s an exception and I have to admit that 45/40 Flat and NH seems a very good starting point.
    Mick Fitzgerald retired at 38 due to an injury.

    #1677793
    greenasgrass
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    • Total Posts 9146

    Gérald Mossé is still race riding and he’s 57.

    #1677803
    Marlingford
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    • Total Posts 1906

    When thinking about risk, my main concern would be if an older jockey was a higher risk to other participants or their horse. I suspect this is not the case, and that inexperienced jockeys would be the greater risk. If an older jockey is aware that they may bounce back less well from injury as time passes, I think that is a personal decision about risk for them to decide on.

    I’d not be keen on a mandatory retirement age unless there is statistical evidence to indicate older jockeys are a significantly greater risk. I personally doubt this is the case.

    #1677860
    homersimpson
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    • Total Posts 3214

    I’m sure if not fit enough then trainers/owners would soon stop using the jockey. I don’t think there has to be an age limit.

    If say Frankie was not getting any big rides anymore due to age, this will be to do with fitness. He may then get offered lesser rides at Wolverhampton on a Monday but obviously would think this was not worth the risk and retire.

    For those thinking there should be an age limit, think if there was an age limit of 70 on driving but you were still fit, had good reactions and eyesight. How would that make you feel?

    There is also age discrimination to think about.

    #1677861
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12996

    This is all getting a bit too “Logan’s Run” for me – where’s Jenny Agutter when you need her?

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1677872
    Avatar photoRefuse To Bend
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4221

    You’re given me visions there Ian :wacko:

    The more I know the less I understand.

    #1677895
    Richard88
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    • Total Posts 3678

    I cannot think of another sport that enforces retirement on anyone. If you’re good enough, you’re good enough. If you’re not then you won’t get picked any more. Simple as that.

    #1677898
    zilzal
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    • Total Posts 1801

    “The inherent perils of horseracing, a high-octane sport that turns on speed and is dependent on the whims of a cavalry of volatile, often intractable animals that weigh half a tonne each, means that disaster is never far away”

    (Ex jockey Forristal)

    Richard, I can’t think of a sport where a sportsman so routinely (and courageously) puts himself/herself in harm’s way. It’s surely a sport where peak fitness is necessary and as we get older that is much more difficult to maintain.

    #1677900
    LD73
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    • Total Posts 4134

    I don’t see what test/criteria you could put in place/use to police/determine when a jockey should be forced into taking retirement, you can’t just randomly pick an age and a physical would not really replicate the conditions of riding a horse professionally plus I doubt any jockeys riding today would fail to pass a general fitness test….and we all know that they have to pass the doctor before coming back to ride off an injury anyway.

    Yes you need a certain high level of fitness to ride (especially with National Hunt) but arguably it is more of a mental exercise (married to experience) rather than a physical thing as generally the older a jockey gets the better they ride (tactically speaking).

    We have countless examples in the past of jockey’s like Lester, Willie Carson and Bruce Raymond to name a few who all successfully rode into their 50s and today as we know Frankie is still riding at 52 (and coming off the back of two Classic wins and I believe 6 G1 successes in the UK along with a Breeders Cup win) whilst Franny Norton and Joe Fanning are both 53 and combined they rode a total of 127 winners in 2023.

    Ryan Moore will be 41 in September and I don’t think anyone would suggest that his skills in the saddle have eroded to where he should be ‘tested’ to make sure he is still competent to be riding. Obviously, it is a case by case basis as one size fits all rule clearly couldn’t be used with jockeys and a lot will tell you that they know when it is time to call it a day as their own body will usually tell them they can’t keep going.

    I don’t think age had anything to do with Graham Lee’s horrific accident….horses can do unpredictable things that can catch any jockey off guard (regardless of age) and you only have to be extremely unfortunate to fall the wrong way to find yourself in serious trouble – Freddie Tylicki was around 30 I believe when he had his life altering accident.

    With all of the increased knowledge/advances in physical, mental and dietry health, more jockeys (that aren’t going for Jockeys Title and/or are prioritising quality over quantity) are likely to be riding well into their 40s and even a few more into their 50s and I don’t think bringing in a mandatory retirement age is really workable.

    #1677903
    zilzal
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    • Total Posts 1801

    Some good points there LD73. I’d have to say though that most of today’s jockeys I imagine do not have the same kind of stature, physique and “breeding” as the household names you mention above. Our reflexes slow as we age, changes in our physiology occur unbeknownst to us and past injuries and traumas can catch up on anyone out of the blue. Todays jockeys shouldn’t be expected to take the risks that those of a different era took.

    #1677911
    Richard88
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    • Total Posts 3678

    ‘I can’t think of a sport where a sportsman so routinely (and courageously) puts himself/herself in harm’s way. It’s surely a sport where peak fitness is necessary and as we get older that is much more difficult to maintain.’

    Motorsport is the obvious closest example, particularly motorcycle racing. Car racing is still dangerous but thankfully far less so than it was with advances in technology but there’s only so much you can do to a bike to make it safe. Valentino Rossi raced in MotoGP until 42 and Fernando Alonso will be 43 this year and he’s still in Formula 1. Others do carry on in more minor series into their 40s, I know Jenson Button still races sometimes. Supreme fitness, lightning reactions etc are all required in these as they are in horse racing.

    #1677938
    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4134

    I don’t for one minute think jockeys of today should follow the same route those jockeys of the past took and in any case with the improvements in nutritional science the insane sacrifices the likes of Lester made to keep his weight down simply wouldn’t be tolerated now.

    Jockeys are simply much better equipt and have readily available access to all the tools needed to take better care of themselves to the point that the longevity part of the job is now much more attainable for more jockeys over those back in the day who survived based on an iron will/stubborness and starvation diets depriving their body to keep it well below its natural weight….obviously it also helps if you are on the smaller side physically with a naturally lower weight that can be maintained without as much work.

    For most sports there is a natural dropping off point where either the physical demands become too much (the G-forces that F1 subject the body to for instance) or the physical ability wanes sufficiently to the point where an athlete can’t compete or even be competitive at the same high level (athletics/football/rugby etc) and many view that as the time to walk away (injury related retirements aside).

    Racing is different in that you are working in conjunction with a live animal where (no matter how strong you are) you will always lose the physical strength argument with a horse if it decides not to obey commands – also racing isn’t just about having the physical strength as horses don’t always respond to that and that is why women (given the opportunity) can be every bit as successful as their male counterparts in a sport that is as close to a level playing field as any for either sex.

    As long as the jockey can keep their cardiovascular fitness to a high consistent level, I believe it is more important that they continue to use the most powerful muscle of all – the one between their ears and we know their are exercises that you can do to allow that as you get older as well, and that more than anything will help them so they can extend their career long past the age where most athletes in other sports have transitioned to either commentating on their sport (rather than doing it) or moving onto something else entirely.

    #1677991
    greenasgrass
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    • Total Posts 9146

    Michael Rutter was the first person to break 200mph on this course. He raced well into his 40s, I think he has retired now (though his father Tony raced till he was 50) but John McGuinness still racing, he’s 51 now. I think McGuinness is known to be a smooth rider and safe to follow into corners- the ones who reach their 40s still alive and sound enough to race tend to have good judgement and not be too reckless.

    Bruce Anstey set a lap record at the Isle of Man TT at 44 and won the Classic race there at the age of 50, after some fairly brutal chemo for cancer in his lungs and spine.

    Another Kiwi, Burt Munro, set speed records at Bonneville Salt Flats when he was 68 (the film, The Worlds Fastest Indian, is worth watching).

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