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Bulwark,
Israel has carried out plenty of military operations – take your pick from the invasions of Lebanon (1982 and 2006), to the aquisition of the occupied territories during the 6 Day War, to the recent invasion of Gaza. All they seem to have done is alienate their neighbours yet further, drive more and more Palestinians into the arms of extremist groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas, and above all else, do anything but defeat terrorism. It could be easily argued the level of terror groups in the middle east has a direct correlation with the extent of the Israeli military actions.
I hate terrorism, and I am sure any sane person would. However I also hate the spectacle of modern armies invading countries with a heavy handed state of the art mechanism which results in 1500 dead people. The rocket attacks are random, and appalling for the relatives of the dead. However shouldn’t Israel ask themselves why is this happeneing to us all the time, and all our military might and hardware has not made the lives of our citizens any safer. Unless you build walls around the entire Israeli border, and have a multi billion $ anti missile system in place across all of Israel, then you cannot protect your citizens from these random terrorist attacks. So how do you effectively stop them? Clearly not by the invasions as they failed in 82, 06 and it would seem 09 as the ceasefire was breached a couple of times by Hamas.
To me the only way to end it is by diplomacy. Israel has nuclear weapons but Hamas still fires rockets. Will Israel use them? Of course not. Is Hamas scared of Israel no. Terrorists usually don’t scare easily which is why they do what they do – they are extreme. There has to be some give and take and for me the Obama era could be the chance, at last, for the Middle East to reach a lasting peace. Here’s hoping.
We’ll have to agree to disagree February, IMO diplomacy will not work in this situation, for two reasons:
a) it is very difficult to hold talks with a terrorist organisation, only a vocal section of one, and the two can distance themselves from one another anytime it suits them (sinn fein/IRA) so that they are only ever the hero or the victim, never the villain.
b)The longer you continue to do nothing whilst your country is attacked, the more people will begin to lose faith in your judgement and your own country will become unstable with the emergence of potentially more extreme politics, be it through groups who will antagonize the process or a new leader promising to sort out the problem. Should this happen in gaza, it merely means more targets in gaza, should it happen in israel, it merely means more targets in gaza.
There are all different sorts of conflicts and I believe this is different in its own right.
In this situation you have a group of hostiles confined to a relatively small area, who are attacking your country, IMO the best solution is to use their attack as an excuse to take out strategic targets within their area. The people of gaza are much less organised than Israel and their resources will run out sooner, it may not be an end result but it will surely be a form of controlling your enemy until such times as they become tired of getting battered.
I agree that violence perpetuates violence, but religion, and more importantly intolerance of other religions can also lead to violence, the source of this problem IMO is the belief that Israel are a religious enemy and muslims are just in destroying that enemy. Where not everyone in Gaza will hold such extreme views some clearly do, and until such times as extremism has been wiped out to the point that such views can be controlled from within gaza’s less extreme population, the only feasible solution is further "chicago rules" responses.
I recently watched Ross Kemp in Gaza. Now i don’t want to get involved in any convo regarding the Jews and the Hamas led Gaza.
But what i do want to raise is a truly horrifying piece of footage of a young girl who can be no older than 10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCXVzHn-LCA
7.40-8.30
You see this girl describe such horrific events without shedding a tear or showing any sort of grimace on her face. She spoke clear and concise.
That was quite disturbing IMO
Now i don’t want to get involved in any convo regarding the Jews and the Hamas led Gaza.
no of course not
But we never seem to see similar posts and links about congo, sri lanka, sierra leone and god knows how many other shtholes where far worse things happen do we?
Here is a list:-
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ar/map.htm
Really, quite depressing.
Regards – Matron
it is quite hard to understand how a child could desribe such things but their experiences in life ahve been so different to ours, it is understandable that they have been desensitised somewhat
Clive are you indicating that this little girl is a lier?
She looks haunted to her soul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB-Mk4bF … _embedded#!
Footage
Also 10,000 People attempted to Storm the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul.
All of this occured in International Waters….completely illegal act.
This act by Israeli forces is absolutely deplorable. It is time the international community united in condemning this action – and enforce sanctions on Israel.
Sweden has already taken action. The UK government will do nothing ( as usual ) as Britain is nothing more than America’s poodle these days – and you can bet your Royal Ascot top hat that good ol’ Americky won’t upset their Israeli friends; oh no, siree – therefore, sheepish Britain will make the obvious noises but will do absolutely nothing to rock the boat.
Now we’ll see what Mr. David Cameron is made of.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
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I just hope that this might just wake the world up to the constand continious crimes that Israel feel justified in commiting.
Absolutely isgusting to see on TV that the various Israeli spokespeople were actually defending their action because the aid workers attacked them!!!! Complete joke.
Im just praying every country around the world introduces a trade ban with Israel with immediate effect.
This hopefully will lead to massive international pressure on Israel. If the world doesnt act now on such mindless violence on those who were simply trying to help others in need then the world really is a horrible place.
Its time to stand up to Israel. Remove it from all EU/UN/International agreements, basically remove it from the world and see what happens to it.
There is a march tonight in Dublin at 6pm.
Turkey i can’t believe the words coming from their mouths.
Really setting it up to Israel and this is going to cause a massive rift in the States as Turkey is a huge alley but also 1/2 Muslim 1/2 Christian. They really are just going after Israel like no other country.
The States will be pulling their hairs out as Turkey has given huge access to the US Marine etc for the Wars in Iraq etc. and now are talking about
"Turkish-Israeli relations have suffered an immeasurable blow,"
"Regional players and particularly the US must step up to the plate and deal with this issue. Otherwise we will see a serious deterioration of regional and international security with concrete repercussions for all.
"The international community’s response to this incident will be key in understanding where we are headed on this issue."
Strong Words
- Total Posts 17716
Maybe the world needs a country like Turkey to finally sort out Israel. And I don’t mean by talking or sitting around a table, you cannot deal with Israel that way, its been tried time and time again, they still think different rules should apply to them, enough is enough.
It’s time for Palestine to invade Israel, this time with the help of the rest of the world…
The BBC has made its position quite clear in my view, opting to call the people on board the ships "Activists" rather than "Aid workers".
It will be interesting to see Obama’s reaction in the days to come.
And I hope the terrorist organisation that run Palestine are also stopped. The same one that causes horrific damage for it’s people by relentlessly firing what are pointless rockets daily.
And for those who believe in International law, where is America and the UK’s punishment for the Iraq war? Iran has it right, the UN has no credibility left. It never had any when it started. Apply more pressure to Israel, and I’m convinced they’ll just blow the Palestine state away like never before. The responses can come from the rest of the world but that’s all they’ll be.
I heard that more people were Killed Today by Israeli Forces than the 10,000 Rockets that hit Israeli over the past few years.
Amazing.
Jose is right their is no credibility in the UN. Sorry state of affairs but i guess thats the world.
I sure Mr Obama will have to take into account the Jewish Lobby for the Midterm Elections coming up before he issue’s his statement. Pity it will mute his opinion.
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