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Afternoon Mr Esc :)<br>I’m not knocking you for punting each way as I do not know how many there were in the race, therefor I don’t know the advantage of the bookie, as some bets you cannot just decide what bet type to place as it looks a place horse and thats your bet but you want to be sure by backing the win just to be on the safe side. The main point I’m trying to get across, if you must back each way then make the odds fair by going elsewhere as the stats I put up clearly show you the % against you if you just accept the bookies rigid each way policies on certain race types. We are all trying to make each other better (and wiser) punters and this is merely a way of playing on an even or advantage playing field
If you wanted 30% win/70% place then you could have been accomidated probably at those sites I metioned eariler to fair terms.
Re: the value, I don’t want to go down those lines on this thread and it would be probably best brought up on the other mate.
DL, if the aim of this thread was to highlight the normally bad value of the place portion of an e/w bet, I totally agree. If I haven’t acknowledged that, is simply because I know you’re correct, it’s been “taken as readâ€ÂÂ
I feel very strongly on the subject of each way betting. It can be sumed up very simply. If you believe the chance of your horse getting placed is greater than a fifth of the odds non handicaps, or 1/4 in handicaps, then punt it. The amount of times this happens though is very slim. Only ever when theres 16+ in a handicap (where you have fair odds 1/4 odds for 4 places) OR and most profitable, a skewed market.
Around 6 month ago there was a conditions stakes where the betting was<br>Horse A – 4/7<br>Horse B – 2/1<br>Horse C – 11/2<br>Horses D to M – 100/1 or bigger.
I thought horse C (sorry dont remember the name) had a roughly a fair chance of winning, about a 5/1 shot but its chance of getting placed was closer 1/8 or 1/10 simply due to the race make up because apart from injury or a very freak result, those 3 would fill the places. I had the biggest bet of my life on horse C and only got 5% profit on my investment, but it was a free bet on the win. OK it didnt win but I know if I bet E/W on races like that, I’d garuntee to be comfortably in profit after 20 or 30 races. The only problem is finding freak races such as that.
If you dont agree, put yourself in the bookies position,. Would you like to lay a bet like that on a race like that?
As for people who like betting E/W in races where there are less than 16 runners have a look at this
<br>Punter A and Punter B have 100 bets in a year. They have 10 winners a year all at 10/1, they have 10 horses finish 2nd and 10 horses finish 3rd, roughly the percentage youd expect. Only difference is that Punter A places £5 E/W every race and Punter B prefers to bet £10 win. The maths are as follows –
Punter A – win bets – Placed £500 in total, returned £550 (£55×10)<br> place bets – Placed £500 in total, returned £525 (£17.50×30)
total staked = £1000.<br>total profit = £75
Punter B – win bets – Placed £1000 in total, returned £1100
total profit = £100
<br>As you can see, even off identical results, and predictable place percentage, you’d lose out on £25 and thats only betting fivers and tenners. The ton and grand punters would be chucking away £250 and £2500 respectively.
E/W betting in races under 16 runners IS a con, UNLESS you are clever with it, as I mentioned further up. Dont let the theives rob you.
Oh and one other thing. Daylight has made some superb and very accurate statements in this thread, and i am behind him 100%. All of the people who have been on the mathematical side of gambling, have ALL sided with betting win only in nearly all instances. I have seen NO mathematical evidence for betting E/W ahead of win by anyone on this thread, apart from the instances i mentioned earlier. If anyone would like to supply me some figures to prove me otherwise then feel free! And plesae no-one come up with the bollocks that betting isnt mathematical and being about ‘getting a return when you otherwise wouldnt have gotten one’. I wont even read it. If you want to know why, read my above thread.
PS sorry if I sound quite angry but I feel incredibly strongly on this
From the bookmaker perspective we at betabet hate e/w bets particularly post gross profit , as we are pricing up a race with a win book then getting murdered on the each way part of the bet
Regards
But the odds are against you in races with 16 or less runners Esc, why still do it when there are alternatives?
Absolutely no arguments from me about betting each way in that race as 16 runners lined up although I would have been extremely :fire: had I had the 4th place if I backed each way!
That race 5 minutes before the off was an each way reasonable bet if you back each way and odds were in your favour until Mr Savill’s horse couldn’t take part due to the cock-up by Uttoxeter staff.
Imagine the return if you left your comfort blanket at home! Kerching£££! Why not keep records and compare the difference if you did win only – nothing to lose by doing that and it takes no time to jot your bets down, you might find either way but it’s a test well worth taking if it makes you richer.
Each-way betting in some races is extremely good value.But the key words here are SOME RACES.Backing horses is all about percentages and where the percentage is in the bookmakers favour then the punter should not be backing in the race at all,either win or e/w.
A perfect example of a race to play E/W on was a race at Warwick on Friday 22 Feb.<br>Borani was 11/10 fav and most on-course bokkmakers were reluctant to bet E/W because the next 3 runners in the market were priced at 7/2,9/1 and 10/1 with the other runners being 16/1 and bigger.Total S/P percentage was 116%.
If the favourite does not complete the course then the E/W liabilities are considerable.Whist it was almost impossible to get an E/W bet on course there is no problem off-course and it was more than pleasing to see QUICKSWOOD drift from an opening show of 7/1 to his returned SP OF 9/1.
On ground which suited this dour stayer more than any other in the field it would have been a major surprise if he had been out of the frame and with the favourite being already beaten when he fell at the last Quickswood was able to coast home by a distance.
Some would argue that the 11/10 favourite looked certain to be in the frame and therfore E/W punters would be looking only at two places and i totally agree on this point,but with only four horses with real live chances in the race it was a major E/W punting race.<br>
(Edited by beard at 1:18 pm on Feb. 25, 2002)
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