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Interesting comments from Moore but not a view shared by his trainer who has always said what a straightforward horse with a good attitude he is. To be fair don’t all horses like beating inferior opposition, it’s the non-inferior opposition that you tend to struggle to beat.
I’ve no doubt that Harbinger is a genuine Group 1 horse, the Hardwicke was merely confirmation of that, and it will be a real shame if he isn’t allowed to take his chance in the King George merely because a stablemate of his is already going to run there.
I’ve yet to see Harbinger beat anything that would make him a short price for the King George. Will be interesting to see who gets his way because Harry Herbert seems very keen on running him in the race. I’ve no doubt if they both run Moore will ride Workforce.
I’ve yet to see Harbinger beat anything that would make him a short price for the King George. Will be interesting to see who gets his way because Harry Herbert seems very keen on running him in the race. I’ve no doubt if they both run Moore will ride Workforce.
How short’s short? I’m not suggested he should be fav because of the presence of Workforce, but were it not for his 3-y-o stablemate, Harbinger would be something like a 2/1 chance for the King George and justifiably so I think with the absence of a meaningful Ballydoyle challenge.
I think a RPR of 126 is extremely generous for a 3 length level weight defeat of a horse who was beaten in a Listed and Group 3 its previous 2 starts.
Id have Sariska’s Coronation and Middleton runs and Dar Re Mi’s BC form superior and throw in the possibilities of Ask, Youmzain, maybe a rejuvenated Cavalryman and definitely more to come from Jan Vermeer and I’d be at least looking for 5-6/1 without Workforce.
Duncan is a funny horse, and dependent on your view of him will have a massive effect on how positively you view the Hardwicke. My take on him, is that he is a very talented horse, he was beaten little distance at all in the 2009 Coronation Cup. Since then though I think he’s looked quirky, giving himself no chance in last year’s Princess of Wales’ at the July meeting. Similarly his reappearance he gave the impression he could, and probably should have gone past Barshiba as and when he liked, but hung badly and didn’t relish a battle. Saturday’s race for me was a chance for Duncan to be seen to his very best, a well-run race for him to quicken off and an superior to chase to keep him interested. His comprehensive defeat of Barshiba suggested he improved markedly on his reappearance form. I’d probably want to be against him if he’s short next time in a race that wouldn’t be sure to go so much his way.
Taking 2/1 (without Workforce) on a formline 5 races old is a bit too optimistic for me, DJ. I’d definitely be more negative on Duncan. On top of which Sir Michael rarely over-faces his horses and the level at which Harbinger has been campaigned thus far suggests he’s short of King George winning class.
The ratings boys go a bit wild on these Stoute older horses at times imo.
Coming up this Sunday.
I’ve taken a look at the horses, thrown out everything that wasn’t Ballydoyle, eliminated Bright Horizon (just not good enough), At First Sight (ran the race of his life in the Derby, but not up to standard), and Jan Vermeer (basically overrated).
This leaves me with Midas Touch and Cape Blanco. And I can’t split the two.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!
Twitter=@PGHenn
So don't run, just like the others always do
On last year’s evidence you would hope Stoute runs both as it would make for a cracking heat. I tend to agree Harbinger has to prove – been brought along nicely through the ranks, but what has he beaten. I suppose the Manifest form anchors him a little bit, but you could argue the Cecil horse was a non stayer Ascot – though to my eyes he wasn’t good enough to lie up even over 2 miles.
Workforce is a toughie – to the eye and clock looked hugely impressive, but collateral form has given his prospects a knock. On the converse the Derby horses going to Ascot were being turned out ratehr quickly in what proved to be a hottish Kind Edward VII.
I think when you chuck in the 12lbs wfa, he has a massive chance of winning, with nothing to fear from his peers (I remember all sorts of excuses coming out of last year’s Derby for the Ballydolye horses last year too, and how they would reverse form with Sea The Stars, and imo the best older horse giving it a miss (Fame And Glory) – oh and no entry for Lope De Vega. It would be an intirguing clash if Workforce took on the last named in the Arc – memories of Bering v Dancing Brave. I am not entirely convinced the English would win this time around.
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A really desperate field for the irish bloodstock industry, I’ll be on the best horse in the race Midas Touch and he wouldn’t have to run a G1 time to win this.
Have to stick with my Ante Post English Derby bets , Cape Blanco and Chabal (9/2) and (12).
I hear many people saying its a poor turn out.
But what other Horses could go realistically?
Workforce really is the only one.
Bullet Train
Ted Spread
Azmeel
Buzzword
Al Zir
Hot prospectAll beaten miles in The Derby
Bolger has a few entered and Carraiglawn is a very progressive Horse. Chabal also bring a new dimension to the table as does Mark Johnston Horse. Jan Vermeer will surely bolt up and then make his way to the King George and take on Workforce to see who really is TOP Middle Distance Horse of their Generation.
The 3yr old Middle Distance Group of Horses are weak on Depth but not on Strength imo.
We wait and see is the Epsom Derby Form worth the paper its written on over the next few weeks
Jan Vermeer ran like a non stayer at Epsom and from looking up the pedigree straight afterwards ( forgotten the detail now) there were indications that beyond 10 furlongs is entitled to be an issue for him……..clearly Ballydoyle know better than me so I have to be encouraged that he is an intended runner and the reason for his Derby disappointment may come to light after he has won on Sunday and will be nowt to do with stamina deficiencies.
Only one pacemaker plus uncertain runner in At First Sight from Ballydoyle outside the main hopes, may suggest that it won’t be the burn-up it has tended to become in recent years ann so not place such emphasis on stamina.
Jan Vermeer doesn’t appear to have had a clear run at things so far this year so an an attritional race may not serve him as well as it did Fame and Glory last year when he was probably at his season’s peak.I think Johannes Vermeer will probably do it. I wondered if Puncher Clynch could do it, but I remember Bolger saying that he wasn’t a G1 horse after the Ballysax. Or am I remembering incorrectly…
A really desperate field for the irish bloodstock industry, I’ll be on the best horse in the race Midas Touch and he wouldn’t have to run a G1 time to win this.
How is it a desperate field for the Irish Bloodstock industry? Surely a bloodstock industry is ultimately judged by the progeny the stallions produce rather than it’s racing record.
JohnJ
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I can’t even back that statement up and probably wasn’t even concentrating on the thread in proper when writing it so I apologize.
I am though just disapointed with how this classic race has turned out, theres no way on earth any classic should be won 4 years on the trot by the same trainer (could someone find out if it has?) and the Irish breed the best horses in the world but whys the best Irsh flat race dominated by one man, don’t the other trainers have the responsibility to represent their best race? surely John Oxx, Kevin Pendergast, Dermot Weld, Tommy Stack, David Wachman etc has at least something of Group 2/3 class to take a chance on.
It would have been nice to see Sea The Stars buck the trend but we’ll have to deal with Godolphin 2nd string, nothing from Hills, nothing from Stoute and 2nd English Derby winner to swerve this race, and the fact Mark Johnston is seriously considering running Monterosso 9 days after Ascot speaks alot for the competition.
I just hope Midas Touch can shine a little light on my day come Sunday, maybe i’ll feel better and look at things more positive after Friday when Ive got this backlog of work out the way!
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