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He almost got run down by a filly, a good filly, but not a great filly. I really don’t think this horse will win the Arc, esp on soft ground, which will most likely be won by some French 3yo plodder that has been put away all summer.
I say Champion Stakes and then go for the big roll of the dice in the Classic at Churchill Downs. 10f is his optimum distance. The Champion Stakes doesn’t add much extra for his CV at stud, but is a nice prep race for the BC Classic which knocks his stud value out of the ballpark, and this is one of the easiest years to win a Classic on dirt… fuxake, the best two horses of the bunch pointed at it are fillies."andyod" wrote: How about coming up the hill at Leopardstown? Didn’t seem suspect to me.The extra two furlongs will reduce the challenge to horses with less speed and more stamina.Should suit him perfectly.But does Heffo have the ability to win an Ark? How I would like to have Murtagh or Fallon riding him in the big ones from now on.
Don’t insult the man Andy, Heffernan has won countless Group 1’s and if the horse is good enough he’ll be good enough.
How about coming up the hill at Leopardstown? Didn’t seem suspect to me.The extra two furlongs will reduce the challenge to horses with less speed and more stamina.Should suit him perfectly.But does Heffo have the ability to win an Ark? How I would like to have Murtagh or Fallon riding him in the big ones from now on.
I think their lies the issue, the ground. Come Arc day, likely to have some cut in the ground, which should only further hamper So You Think’s chances. Definitely would need it good.
And calling Snow Fairy just a ‘good’ filly is somewhat insulting to a dual Oaks winner and multiple Group One winner.
Ranking jockeys is not insulting. The whole concept of hiring the best available is ranking jockeys.How often the "horse is good enough" but gets beaten.As recently as yesterday we saw Hoof It being beaten.Had Fallon been aboard the result may well have been different.It is commonly accepted that some jockeys are better than others.So no need for pious fraud.
You said "Does Heffo have the ability to win an Ark".
Do you think he would have ridden in any Arc’s if AOB didn’t think he could steer one home?
He has never won past 10f (ok 10.5f if you want to be pedantic). I wouldn’t bank on him in the Arc, that extra 2f over possible soft or heavy ground…. not convinced he has the stamina for it. He definitely seemed suspect coming up the hill at Ascot.
I agree there are question marks re: stamina, but Ryan Moore went for home way too early at Ascot (plus if you believe Aidan the horse was undertrained) so it might not be a sign that he lacks the stamina for 12f. I think SYT will stay 12f because of his Aussie runs, but I’m not that sure about it
He almost got run down by a filly, a good filly, but not a great filly.
I think people underrate Snow Fairy a bit. Midday held her out over 10f last race, but that was Snow Fairy’s 2nd up run (after losing by 9L to So You Think first up), there was no pace, and Snow Fairy may very well be better over 12f. She’s likely improved since her last race vs. Midday and I’d take Snow Fairy to beat that one especially over 12f.
So You Think may have also been idling though it’s difficult to be sure. And coming off a two month break too so likely not 100%?
Have no problem with SYT staying the trip in the arc. He ran third in a melbourne cup 3200m. While he didn’t have his normal turn of foot at the end i think 2400 would be a different story. he relaxes in his reaches a lot better now too. His speed will take him a long way in the arc and people who don’t think he has a good turn of foo should watch some of his races in aus. It is devastating.
Putting the win over Workforce with todays win over Snow Fairy So You Think
makes believers out of us all
.Against Workforce he came from behind,today he won from the front.Brilliant.
What are we being asked to believe? That SYT is a bit better than Workforce and Snow Fairy over 10 furlongs? Or the original hype when he was brought over here by Coolmore, that SYT is a once in a decade superstar – or even better? He has had a few chances now in the Northern Hemisphere to show how brilliant he is. So far he has shown us that he is a very good horse, well up to classic winning standard in a normal year – if there were any classics over 10 furlongs. But I suppose it depends on how you define “brilliant”.
As for The Vintner being keen about winning the Champion Stakes and/or the Breeders Cup boosting SYT’s stud value into the stratosphere, why would it do that? The top 15 in the UK 2010 stallion lists boast only ONE winner of a 10 furlong race (Galileo in the Derrinstown Study Derby Trial). There are one or two notable exceptions, but specialist 10 furlong horses have a very poor record at stud recently.
I don’t know how much better than Workforce he is.All I know is that he beat Workforce who had a pacemaker who allowed him up on his inside then closed up SYT until he had to give way.I dont know how much better than the Arc winner he is.But he mastered him in a couple of strides.Go look again. Even the commentator was shocked at how easily he did it.
As for the use of Heffernan; Aidan is biased towards his work riders, so much so that he thinks that Joseph, a claiming apprentice, is the "best available" at times,even in the King George, so I won’t enter into a discussion of his choice of jockeys.I will say that most trainers in Ireland would not agree with Aidan or they would be using Joseph and Seamus on a daily basis.Which they don’t.Strange that Andy, because in the last 14 days Heffernan has ridden for David Marnane, Tom Stack, Tracey Collins, Harry Rogers, Tom Hogan among others.
Joesph O’Brien has ridden for Pat Flynn, Eoin Doyle, James Nash, Joanna Morgan, Edward Lynam among others.
OK I give up. They are world class jockeys and two at the same yard what a coincident!
Andy, it was just someone pointing out that both jockeys are in demand with outside trainers, contrary to your assertion.
So You Think is an above average Group 1 winner, but not in the Frankel class.
Got beat by Rewilding when argueably went for home too soon in a strongly run race (although Sri Putra was closer to him in the Eclipse than Prince Of Wales which suggests not). Beat Workforce over a trip not ideal for the Stoute horse. Now he’s just held on by half a length from an admirable filly who’s not even the best of her generation. It seems after every run there’s an excuse for why he didn’t do even better (hype).
Looking at Australian form, didn’t see him "idle" there. Although was it just me or did he carry his head a bit awkwardly on Saturday?
So You Think has marvelous attributes, tough, genuine and consistent. Talk of him going for a match with Frankel is just that, talk. It’ll never happen. Toss up between the Champion and Arc. There are others who have just as good claims in the latter and SYT is not sure to be as good at twelve furlongs particularly on a soft surface. Champion the obvious target, with just the Cecil duo to beat should start a short priced fav there where as he’d be around a 5/1 shot if turning up in France (given a normal year). I’d fancy Workforce to turn the tables.
Added to that, Aidan has not been in quite as good form in the Autumn.
Value Is EverythingSo You Think’s workmanlike performance confirmed, to me at least, that the ex-Aussie star is not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination – and also re-confirmed two things: firstly, he will not trouble Frankel over a mile, and secondly, he will not win The Arc.
My advice, lay So You Think all day long for The Arc.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Now he’s just held on by half a length from an admirable filly who’s not even the best of her generation.
Agree with most of your post Ginge’ but how has Snow Fairy not proved herself the best of her generation?
Dear Eclipse First "I will say that most trainers in Ireland would not agree with Aidan or they would be using Joseph and Seamus on a daily basis." That was my assertion and I believe it to be basically true.There are some trainers who use them occasionally as pointed out in a post above.Joseph is still a good claiming apprentice.I don’t deny that.
Now he’s just held on by half a length from an admirable filly who’s not even the best of her generation.
Agree with most of your post Ginge’ but how has Snow Fairy not proved herself the best of her generation?
I would imagine he is referring to Midday who has beaten her comfortably twice.
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